Police from around the country drafted in to support Essex events (From Braintree and Witham Times)

Seems that Chelmsford is the place to be this weekend! Haven´t got tickets for V, and not a scout, so maybe I´ll head down and shout abuse at the idiotic EDL.

This country has always opposed the far right, right back to the East End dockers telling Mosley where to go. It is fairly reassuring to know that they will probably get perhaps 200 people there, and their views are so repellent to most of the population that they can only march with police protection.

how would you describe alex salmond?
i don't think your nature is really very romantic.

nice little earner lads.plenty of wonga.

romantic wrote:
Seems that Chelmsford is the place to be this weekend! Haven´t got tickets for V, and not a scout, so maybe I´ll head down and shout abuse at the idiotic EDL. This country has always opposed the far right, right back to the East End dockers telling Mosley where to go. It is fairly reassuring to know that they will probably get perhaps 200 people there, and their views are so repellent to most of the population that they can only march with police protection.

Thanks wasn't aware the EDL were coming to Chelmsford. I'll be supporting them so I'll see you there.

Expect some 'robust' policing from the Met. I can't see them standing for some of the behaviour the Essex boys ****-foot around.

EthanEdwards wrote:

romantic wrote:
Seems that Chelmsford is the place to be this weekend! Haven´t got tickets for V, and not a scout, so maybe I´ll head down and shout abuse at the idiotic EDL. This country has always opposed the far right, right back to the East End dockers telling Mosley where to go. It is fairly reassuring to know that they will probably get perhaps 200 people there, and their views are so repellent to most of the population that they can only march with police protection.

Thanks wasn't aware the EDL were coming to Chelmsford. I'll be supporting them so I'll see you there.

It´s a free country, but don´t expect much support from the people of Chelmsford. The fact that this group can only march with huge police presence shows how unwelcome they are, and how few people agree with their message.

wellnow wrote:
how would you describe alex salmond?
i don't think your nature is really very romantic.

Alex Salmond, like most politicians, cares more for his own image and legacy in history than for "the people".

Not entirely sure why you would make the connection between EDL and SNP, though. Yes, the SNP want independence for Scotland, but that is not the same as the racism, Islamophobia and hatred spewed by the EDL.

Hard to judge what my nature is. Romantic is just a name. I try to say what I feel, it doesn´t mean I expect everybody to agree with it, but I have more respect for people if they are actually able to put forward a meaningful viewpoint. The EDL have the freedom to march, but the rest of us have the freedom to show our disgust at what they stand for. I am English as far back as I can trace (17th century along some lines), and these people do not represent me in any way, shape or form.

romantic wrote:

EthanEdwards wrote:

romantic wrote: Seems that Chelmsford is the place to be this weekend! Haven´t got tickets for V, and not a scout, so maybe I´ll head down and shout abuse at the idiotic EDL. This country has always opposed the far right, right back to the East End dockers telling Mosley where to go. It is fairly reassuring to know that they will probably get perhaps 200 people there, and their views are so repellent to most of the population that they can only march with police protection.

Thanks wasn't aware the EDL were coming to Chelmsford. I'll be supporting them so I'll see you there.

It´s a free country, but don´t expect much support from the people of Chelmsford. The fact that this group can only march with huge police presence shows how unwelcome they are, and how few people agree with their message.

Like I said. I'm a local and if you hadn't mentioned it I wouldn't have even been aware of it. So thanks again.

The trouble is that successive Governments, for whatever reason, have promoted the idea of 'multiculturalism' with no mandate or enthusiasm by the existing population and has encouraged uncontrolled immigration which has caused overcrowding in schools, a drain on resources and a population growth that is unsustainable.

Of course we need immigration but there needs to be very careful controls put in place.

We are fed up with reading about immigrants jumping housing queues, we are fed up with convicted criminals not being allowed to be deported (we have enough of our own, already), we are fed up with the daily 'human rights' litany, we are fed up with tax payer footing most of the costs. We are fed up with with the immediate (and dare I suggest) the unfair allocation of benefits, permits, healthcare, driving licences etc. If anyone comes here, they should ensure thay have enough money deposited to ensure that theywill not be a drain on our enconomy (unless thay have guaranteed employment that is of benefit to us and them)

It is this Government policy, plus certain groups intent on on changing our culture to theirs that feeds the extremist fire and also creates a dangerous 'sympathy' for their extreme attitude.

This has nothing to do with racism, it's just a collective feeling of enough is enough. This situation has been foisted upon us purely for financial and political gain, and we are beginning to question the whole deal.

Romantic, a group of us - including others who post on these threads - are taking the train from Colchester North, to arrive Chelmsford in time to assemble in Tindal Square (Shire Hall) from 11.30 am. Then the march at 1 pm, and speeches. If the EDL show up, we'll be more numerous than them. If they don't, then at least we'll have shown they are unwelcome anywhere in Essex except in the homes of one or two sad people.

Surely the real question should be how the hell have all these events been allowed to happen on the same weekend ? I trust that all the events are being charged for the extra policing or is it the Essex council tax payer who will have to cough up ?

Scoot wrote:
Surely the real question should be how the hell have all these events been allowed to happen on the same weekend ? I trust that all the events are being charged for the extra policing or is it the Essex council tax payer who will have to cough up ?

What do you think?

sad to stand up and be english.seems like the scots welsh and irish are the only independent views that are championed now.walk down barking high road and spot the englishman.thanks to yous lot the only families that can now afford to inhabit these area's sleep 10 to a bed a munch curries all week.

Welcome romantic and Boris to the threads, i assume you have just recently decided to post on here.

The reason i assume that is because of the stance you have taken against, what some would consider, a racist or right wing organisation.

Its a pity you have only just arrived as the racial abuse and slur's on here aimed at Travellers could of done with the kind of comments you make on this thread.

I'm taking it as read that you would challenge racial abuse against Travellers not withstanding their skin colour.

I say that because, while there have been posters on here challenging those who would demonise Black/Asian people, they are noticeably quiet when it comes to challenging the same actions against Travellers..This might be seen by those who abuse different races and cultures as a bit hypocritical of those who defend ethnic minorities until it comes to a white ethic minority?

justryingtopost wrote:
your comment in part E.types
"This might be seen by those who abuse different races and cultures as a bit hypocritical of those who defend ethnic minorities until it comes to a white ethic minority?"

England is not yet a White Ethnic minority,
but is heading that way unless controlled Imigration is brought in,
inline with other white nations.

If your white English, walk alone while on holiday in Jamaica,
in one of its towns,If you dare.
At that point, being a white minority will cause you no end of grief in a non white country.

How long before it happens to some "English" towns now,
or is it trying to teach grandma to suck eggs!

Travellers are white and they are an ethnic minority.

I really have no axe to grind, except the obvious one, with those who abuse Travellers.. because it is clear what they are and where they are coming from and in most cases they dont deny that or if they do not very convincingly.

But the 'right on comrades' or the working/middle class "not in my name" people who march or post to defend non-white ethnic minorities while ignoring a white ethnic minority get my goat!

They dont seem to see the irony or hypocrisy...they could quite easily be accused of discrimination by challenging racial abuse against non-white ethnic minority communities while ignoring racial abuse carried out on a white ethnic minority community!

Of course they wont consider this a valid point but they might be surprised to know that many perceive them to be no better than those who they challenge in regards to racial abuse.

What a waste of police time. Fair enough about the scout event, but I'd have hoped V as a profit-making enterprise would sort out it's own security and safety arrangements.

However, what really makes my blood boil is that we're wasting their time and having to pay for them to keep the peace as the EDL and UAF, two groups equally unfit for society, foam at the mouth hurling insults and anything they can get their hands on at each other.

I have no time for either group. Both have large numbers of militant thugs in their ranks. While I've only been physically threatened by one of them personally, it's reasonably common knowledge that the other is just as bad!

Until both groups can air their views in the proximity of the other without people being hospitalised, they shouldn't be allowed out in public.

justryingtopost wrote:
your comment in part E.types
"This might be seen by those who abuse different races and cultures as a bit hypocritical of those who defend ethnic minorities until it comes to a white ethic minority?"

England is not yet a White Ethnic minority,
but is heading that way unless controlled Imigration is brought in,
inline with other white nations.

If your white English, walk alone while on holiday in Jamaica,
in one of its towns,If you dare.
At that point, being a white minority will cause you no end of grief in a non white country.

How long before it happens to some "English" towns now,
or is it trying to teach grandma to suck eggs!

That must be one of the most stupid posts I've read in this site for a long time. Funny how most of the time it's those that have no understanding of how immigration works or how it goes both ways are the first to start pouring out such drivel!

EDL - Education Deficient Louts

sorry to disappoint e types but if your looking for a pikey lover look no further than boris smithey and romantic.i don't were yous has been over period of dale farm but colours were well and truly nailed to mast.hating pikies ain't racist.they aint a race their outcasts.

wellnow wrote:
sorry to disappoint e types but if your looking for a pikey lover look no further than boris smithey and romantic.i don't were yous has been over period of dale farm but colours were well and truly nailed to mast.hating pikies ain't racist.they aint a race their outcasts.

You do not disappoint me far from it, you are true to form a sick individual.

The term you use for Travellers is a racially abuse one! Please be aware people have been convicted of using the term in much the same way you have today. These threads are monitored and all suspected illegal acts are collated and passed one to the relevant people. You have been advised.

Travellers are in deed a race if they decide they are, for they would fit some criteria for such.

They are of course an ethnic minority and are protected by the race relations act as such.

As for outcasts in a country that rejects racist hate it would seem it is in fact YOU who is the outcast.

CJ1989 wrote:
What a waste of police time. Fair enough about the scout event, but I'd have hoped V as a profit-making enterprise would sort out it's own security and safety arrangements.

However, what really makes my blood boil is that we're wasting their time and having to pay for them to keep the peace as the EDL and UAF, two groups equally unfit for society, foam at the mouth hurling insults and anything they can get their hands on at each other.

I have no time for either group. Both have large numbers of militant thugs in their ranks. While I've only been physically threatened by one of them personally, it's reasonably common knowledge that the other is just as bad!

Until both groups can air their views in the proximity of the other without people being hospitalised, they shouldn't be allowed out in public.

This is a rather curious, worrying, post, with CJ having 'no time for either group.' Right, so on the one hand we have the united Chelmsford demonstration, backed by a true rainbow alliance that included the city's right-wing Tory MP. On the other, we had a bunch of lagered up football thugs, who chose to descend on the county's capital with their hate campaign. God knows where poor old CJ actually stands. But it is a very lonely place.

wellnow wrote:
sorry to disappoint e types but if your looking for a pikey lover look no further than boris smithey and romantic.i don't were yous has been over period of dale farm but colours were well and truly nailed to mast.hating pikies ain't racist.they aint a race their outcasts.

I had to read this post several times to work out what's trying to be said. It is of course one of life's great ironies that the hate filled little Englanders, even maintain a hatred of their own language. How patriotic!

Who really gives a sh. It. Whoever they are travellers, anti whatever or pro whoever they all need to eat and drink so the clever person out of the lot of Them is the man that sells food and drink.
Someone will profit from these idiots.
The bullet makers are always the winners.

wellnow wrote:
sorry to disappoint e types but if your looking for a pikey lover look no further than boris smithey and romantic.i don't were yous has been over period of dale farm but colours were well and truly nailed to mast.hating pikies ain't racist.they aint a race their outcasts.

You're not the brightest of sparks are you sunshine?

The think tank DEMOS did a survey on the EDL. They found that its members were primarily men between 20 & 30 yrs of age drawn from the football terraces. They were mostly unemployed and living on benifits. At last years Cenataph march past the police had to 'kettle' them up in a local pub to prevent problems. EDL have contact with the BNP and also attend anti muslim demos in Denmark and it was believed that Anders Brievik the Norwegian shooter had contact with them. There is a belief that the police have heavily infiltrated their ranks in order to watch their activites!

6079 Smith W wrote:

CJ1989 wrote:
What a waste of police time. Fair enough about the scout event, but I'd have hoped V as a profit-making enterprise would sort out it's own security and safety arrangements.

However, what really makes my blood boil is that we're wasting their time and having to pay for them to keep the peace as the EDL and UAF, two groups equally unfit for society, foam at the mouth hurling insults and anything they can get their hands on at each other.

I have no time for either group. Both have large numbers of militant thugs in their ranks. While I've only been physically threatened by one of them personally, it's reasonably common knowledge that the other is just as bad!

Until both groups can air their views in the proximity of the other without people being hospitalised, they shouldn't be allowed out in public.

This is a rather curious, worrying, post, with CJ having 'no time for either group.' Right, so on the one hand we have the united Chelmsford demonstration, backed by a true rainbow alliance that included the city's right-wing Tory MP. On the other, we had a bunch of lagered up football thugs, who chose to descend on the county's capital with their hate campaign. God knows where poor old CJ actually stands. But it is a very lonely place.

Not a lonely place at all. On the surface, there's nothing wrong with UAF's general philosophy, but how they go about it should be treated with nothing but contempt. Maybe you'll feel differently when you, your friends, and your family have personally been the subject of their threats and intimidation. (Before anyone suggests it, I have no connection whatsoever to the EDL or any far right group, I was threatened merely as a member of the public).

It's the philosophy that has drawn together such a wide range of people, after all ridding the world of fascism can only be a good aim. However, UAF are doing it all wrong.

They're as near as makes no difference every bit as violent as the EDL, but because their underlying cause is a good one, they're almost impossible to criticise. Anyone who does criticise their methods is portrayed as disagreeing with the cause, summarily branded a racist, and totally discredited.

What really winds me up about them though is the hypocrisy. They hate fascism. We get that. They want everyone to be free from religious persecution. A similarly virtuous aim. They are big fans of freedom of speech. Excellent.

Except they DON'T agree with freedom of speech whatsoever when those people have views different to their own (see their 'no platform policy'). So they want to be allowed to air their own views however they wish, but will go to great lengths to make sure the EDL and BNP can't. Now look up the definition of fascism and spot the glaring irony.

However unpalatable the views of the EDL and BNP are, stopping any group from expressing their views is exactly the kind of behaviour that UAF are supposed to be fighting against, not encouraging.

Whenever you have serious debate between the two sides (when it's not stopped by the UAF), the far right groups are exposed for what they are, and people will abandon them in droves.

By not letting this sort of debate happen, UAF are making the choice for the population (sounds a little fascist again), assuming the general public are too stupid to witness it and make up their own minds. I find that offensive.

Made a rather big error there, CJ. UAF was just one of the group's that came together for yesterdays United Chelmsford demonstration. Others, included Amnesty, church groups, and as said, if you would be polite enough to listen, the city's Tory MP. So whatever you think of UAF, you really are displaying a disturbing level of prejudice in dismissing the whole demonstration on that basis.

As for whatever dealings you've had with a UAF member, or members, it seems odd then to tarnish a whole organisation.

Yes, they 'no platform' the far right (though this is controversial on the left, the Socialist Workers Party - the largest group within UAF - are actually reported to be reconsidering their line here). But the argument in its favour is the fact wherever the far right are present, racist violence increases. When Stephen Lawrence was murdered in Welling, it was part of a large increase in racist violence that coincided with the BNP opening a bookshop. In Chelmsford, a racist attack occurred a couple of weeks ago. However, on the whole I largely agree, banning things is not the best way to oppose things. But that's not what the UAF calls for, it merely refuses to stand on the same platform and debate with the far right, and campaigns that others do likewise. Again, I'm not sure that's right, but how is it equivalent to inciting racist violence and murder? That is a rather bizarre view, and again puts you in a very lonely place.

jaywickjoe wrote:

6079 Smith W wrote:

wellnow wrote:
sorry to disappoint e types but if your looking for a pikey lover look no further than boris smithey and romantic.i don't were yous has been over period of dale farm but colours were well and truly nailed to mast.hating pikies ain't racist.they aint a race their outcasts.

I had to read this post several times to work out what's trying to be said. It is of course one of life's great ironies that the hate filled little Englanders, even maintain a hatred of their own language. How patriotic!

Old smithy is biging up herself yet again , your obviously fairly intelligent smithy; so why don't you use it to just make a point instead of belittling people when ever you get the chance just to build your deflated ego.

So it's Joe now, is it? Right, nobody tries harder to belittle people than well now, whether that's individuals on here, or whole groups through the appalling racism. If some illiterate idiot wants to try and be offensive to me, it's fair enough they get it back with knobs on.

6079 Smith W wrote:
Made a rather big error there, CJ. UAF was just one of the group's that came together for yesterdays United Chelmsford demonstration. Others, included Amnesty, church groups, and as said, if you would be polite enough to listen, the city's Tory MP. So whatever you think of UAF, you really are displaying a disturbing level of prejudice in dismissing the whole demonstration on that basis.

As for whatever dealings you've had with a UAF member, or members, it seems odd then to tarnish a whole organisation.

Yes, they 'no platform' the far right (though this is controversial on the left, the Socialist Workers Party - the largest group within UAF - are actually reported to be reconsidering their line here). But the argument in its favour is the fact wherever the far right are present, racist violence increases. When Stephen Lawrence was murdered in Welling, it was part of a large increase in racist violence that coincided with the BNP opening a bookshop. In Chelmsford, a racist attack occurred a couple of weeks ago. However, on the whole I largely agree, banning things is not the best way to oppose things. But that's not what the UAF calls for, it merely refuses to stand on the same platform and debate with the far right, and campaigns that others do likewise. Again, I'm not sure that's right, but how is it equivalent to inciting racist violence and murder? That is a rather bizarre view, and again puts you in a very lonely place.

Not my error, only UAF are mentioned in the article which is what I was commenting on!

As I said (if you would be polite enough to listen this time), I support the fact that a number of totally different groups, both political and religious, are protesting against fascism, it's a good cause! But I do wish it was being led by a group more suitable and less hypocritical than UAF.

Dismissing the whole demonstration based on UAF's involvement is fairly prejudicial I'll admit, but it's safe to say ANY demonstration on ANY topic attended by the EDL would be similarly dismissed, no matter the cause or how valid (I can't imagine what this demonstration would be, but it's the sentiment I'm trying to get across). The prejudicial element wouldn't be called into question then. We get back to having double standards purely based on whether we agree with the groups in question or not.

The reason my experience has tarnished the whole organisation in my eyes was that the intimidation and threats came from some of the leading lights within UAF, and was met with rapturous public support from the entire organisation (it was a pretty big affair). It wasn't being threatened by one or two militant members down a dark alleyway.

I'm glad to hear the no platform policy is at least being discussed, I think it's a colossal mistake and is totally counter-productive. I think there's such unwavering support by so many for the gagging of anyone who doesn't agree with them though, that it'll be here to stay.

I've never understood the argument for it, although I've heard it a lot. That "wherever the far right are present, racist violence increases". Do you really think a BNP bookshop was the root cause of a wave of racist violence? People are violent, not bookshops. They'd have been meeting and planning regardless of the bookshop. If people are so morally vacant that reading one book converts them from regular, sane people, into violent racists then quite frankly the whole country is doomed.

Whether they have a platform or not, they're present. They have a platform on message boards, forums, facebook, everywhere. These places aren't monitored by the general public, they can say what they like there and aren't questioned. They can lie to people, present a soft face of their views, and sign people up to their causes.

Putting them on TV or public debates would be the quickest way of reducing their support. UAF doesn't just refuse to share a platform (something I'd welcome) but they refuse to let the far-right have a platform at all. And they don't just campaign for others to do likewise as you say, they THREATEN others with violence until they have no choice but to cancel based due to safety fears. Trust me on that one.

Both UAF and the EDL have a public-friendly face, which is remarkably similar (in fact both of their mission statements claim to support protecting human rights and freedom of speech), but behind the scenes both groups are equally intolerant of others, violent, and happy to persecute anyone who doesn't agree with them.

EDL - Education Deficient Louts


I thought it stood for Erectile Disfunction League

CJ - Yes, it's a flaw in the article, but I'd already told you of the rainbow alliance across the political spectrum, including the city's MP, so you can't just blame the inaccuracy above. It was a failure to listen.

The stats are there, far-right activity sees an increase in racist attacks. I doubt the thugs involved in it in Welling in the 90s had ever read a book, but the fact the BNP were active in the area would clearly have given them confidence.

I welcome the fact that you've come along way from your original post, where you said the demonstration made your 'blood boil', as it seems your dislike of UAF is what makes your 'blood boil'. Difficult to comment on what you tell us about being threatened, as you've only given so much information as to what happened. Anyway, if it was as big a deal as you claim, you will be able to post a link to a website giving more details on what happened. I know exactly how fractious the left is (and yes, I know how often threats, and actual violence, that takes place between rival left groups, it really ain't pretty at times). What happened to you, if such a big deal, would have been jumped on by anti-SWP groups on the left, as a stick to beat them with.

The real problem is those scouts ... jamboree ?? are you sure ?

CJ - I've just found this, googling 'EDL demo Chelmsford'. Seems like it was the EDL thugs who wanted to make threats, not UAF. http://www.blottr.co
m/breaking-news/edl-
member-threatens-vio
lence-ahead-chelmsfo
rd-demo (and that by the way is a source, essential when making claims about who's threatening violence).

jaywickjoe wrote:

6079 Smith W wrote:

jaywickjoe wrote:

6079 Smith W wrote:

wellnow wrote:
sorry to disappoint e types but if your looking for a pikey lover look no further than boris smithey and romantic.i don't were yous has been over period of dale farm but colours were well and truly nailed to mast.hating pikies ain't racist.they aint a race their outcasts.

I had to read this post several times to work out what's trying to be said. It is of course one of life's great ironies that the hate filled little Englanders, even maintain a hatred of their own language. How patriotic!

Old smithy is biging up herself yet again , your obviously fairly intelligent smithy; so why don't you use it to just make a point instead of belittling people when ever you get the chance just to build your deflated ego.

So it's Joe now, is it? Right, nobody tries harder to belittle people than well now, whether that's individuals on here, or whole groups through the appalling racism. If some illiterate idiot wants to try and be offensive to me, it's fair enough they get it back with knobs on.

I did say "fairly intelligent" I apologise for my mistake. LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Has nobody ever told you it's really uncool to laugh at your own jokes?!

Our Jaywick friend - you're doing it again! Some people never learn. The real divide on this website is certainly about intelligence levels. There are those I might disagree with, like Shadow, like CJ, but at least we are capable of a rational debate. And there's those that use this website to display all their hatred. Look, even the Daily Mail recognises this! http://www.dailymail
.co.uk/sciencetech/a
rticle-2095549/Right
-wingers-intelligent
-left-wingers-says-c
ontroversial-study--
conservative-politic
s-lead-people-racist
.html

6079 Smith W wrote:
CJ - Yes, it's a flaw in the article, but I'd already told you of the rainbow alliance across the political spectrum, including the city's MP, so you can't just blame the inaccuracy above. It was a failure to listen.

The stats are there, far-right activity sees an increase in racist attacks. I doubt the thugs involved in it in Welling in the 90s had ever read a book, but the fact the BNP were active in the area would clearly have given them confidence.

I welcome the fact that you've come along way from your original post, where you said the demonstration made your 'blood boil', as it seems your dislike of UAF is what makes your 'blood boil'. Difficult to comment on what you tell us about being threatened, as you've only given so much information as to what happened. Anyway, if it was as big a deal as you claim, you will be able to post a link to a website giving more details on what happened. I know exactly how fractious the left is (and yes, I know how often threats, and actual violence, that takes place between rival left groups, it really ain't pretty at times). What happened to you, if such a big deal, would have been jumped on by anti-SWP groups on the left, as a stick to beat them with.

How am I not listening? I appreciate that there is a massive range of people there. But the fact that UAF are in attendance makes a mockery of the demonstration. In the same way that the EDL turning up to support a 'national multiculturalism awareness day' would make a mockery of that.


If you really want links, feel free to have a read below:

It all started with a two-sided debate about multiculturalism at Durham university, the BNP were going to come along and would have been torn to bits. Then a letter came through from 2 NUS and UAF members:

http://www.politicsp
oliticalforum.com/po
litical-parties-foru
m/15358-bnp-invited-
speak-durham-univers
ity.html

I enjoy the moral blackmail and empty legal threats, but most offensive is the mention of bringing in coachloads of protesters and that "if any students are hurt in and around this event responsibility will lie with you". Nice.

The official reply was:

http://dsu.org.uk/fi
les/DSU_Joint_Commit
tee_Letter.doc

Which I agree with whole-heartedly. Very worryingly, personal contact details of durham university union officers were passed by the NUS to UAF, who then started receiving threatening phone calls, again with the promise of violence if the debate was not cancelled.

Eventually the police stepped in and said the debate had to be cancelled as they couldn't guarantee everyone's safety. This is how the UAF reported it, revelling in the fact that they had won through violent threats:

http://uaf.org.uk/20
10/02/victory-for-an
ti-fascists-as-durha
m-university-calls-o
ff-plans-for-%E2%80%
98debate%E2%80%99-wi
th-bnp-nazis/

They then had massive backlash from the university, leading to motions brought against the two people who wrote the letters, and the withdrawal of Durham from the NUS. UAF's line:

http://uaf.org.uk/20
10/04/students-unite
d-against-fascism-%E
2%80%93-defend-the-n
us-no-platform-polic
y/

And the result of all of this? A pathetic half-apology from the spineless then-NUS president, no further word from the people who wrote the letter in the first place (who are still preaching their own intolerance to anyone who will listen). Oh and the BNP got to do their 'pity us, we're the repressed underdog' act again.

http://www.palatinat
e.org.uk/?p=5951

Where they make all the people opposing the absurdity levelled at us by UAF and NUS look like support for them.

Oh and a coach-load of UAF supporters turned up on the day of the debate anyway, even though it had been cancelled in advance. I had the pleasure of meeting them, truly lovely people, once we got past another bout of scaremongering and threats of violence.

So no, I still think it's a waste of police time. They (and the EDL) are not fit to be involved in any protest or demonstration whatsoever, as they're incapable of behaving themselves. The rest of the rainbow alliance, sure, but not them.

Violent threats from the EDL - very much expected, but just know that somewhere there are UAF thugs having a very similar conversation about the other side. But everyone is happy to cosy up to them and show their support, as anti-fascism is at it's heart a good cause.

I dare say there are people in the EDL who might be either neutral to Travellers or even pro-Travellers... the same way there are UAF people who are anti-Traveller.

Racism i feel is not the correct word when dealing with hate because of difference...Colouri
sm and Culturism is, imo, more appropriate.

There are people on this very thread who defend against colourism but who would ignore culturism!

No one who isnt a victim of these hates are squeaky clean! Yet will act like it. You are as bad as each other in your preferences!

CJ, you may have a point in the sense that groups such as the BNP do tend to come out worst in any public debate (Nick Griffin on Question Time being a classic example). Although it is sad that they do have some support in the country, it is also reassuring that their support is not higher than having a few council seats.

It is sad on one level that the EDL felt able to march through Chelmsford, but also reassuring in a way that their numbers were not high. Look on the EDL website, and you will see that they spent several weeks trying to get people along, so the fact that comparatively few came should be seen as a positive thing. The fact that so many varied groups protested their presence is also a positive thing.

Although the UAF "organised" the counter-demo, not everybody there was under the wings of them. People are rightly abhorred by the EDL. However much their website may say otherwise, their demos are designed to promote fear. There is not going to be a rational debate between these thugs and those who oppose them. The people at the top of the EDL and BNP may well be articulate and give an impression of being fair-minded, but the people on the demo were the foot-soldiers, who have little interest in debating the issues.

E-types, I haven´t been on this site for a couple of days, and just read through the recent posts. You welcome Boris and myself. We´re both long-timers, but thanks for your welcome anyway.

The point is taken that any labelling of a group of people based solely on their race, religion, nationality etc is wrong. Ideally, people should be judged on how they are as people. Travellers get labelled, the same as Muslims get labelled, or the Germans get labelled, or the working-class get labelled. It´s lazy thinking. Some travellers are OK people, some are not, same as any group of people.

Groups like the EDL work by blaming anything that is wrong in the country on immigrants, Muslims etc. Especially in a time of recession, it becomes easier for them to recruit people to their cause.

The key to getting rid of prejudice, racism, culturism etc has to be education. Somebody who is open to new ideas and can think critically is, in my opinion, less likely to lazily stereotype others based on any perceived difference of race, colour, ethnic group etc. But that is a long-term thing.

romantic wrote:
CJ, you may have a point in the sense that groups such as the BNP do tend to come out worst in any public debate (Nick Griffin on Question Time being a classic example). Although it is sad that they do have some support in the country, it is also reassuring that their support is not higher than having a few council seats.

It is sad on one level that the EDL felt able to march through Chelmsford, but also reassuring in a way that their numbers were not high. Look on the EDL website, and you will see that they spent several weeks trying to get people along, so the fact that comparatively few came should be seen as a positive thing. The fact that so many varied groups protested their presence is also a positive thing.

Although the UAF "organised" the counter-demo, not everybody there was under the wings of them. People are rightly abhorred by the EDL. However much their website may say otherwise, their demos are designed to promote fear. There is not going to be a rational debate between these thugs and those who oppose them. The people at the top of the EDL and BNP may well be articulate and give an impression of being fair-minded, but the people on the demo were the foot-soldiers, who have little interest in debating the issues.

E-types, I haven´t been on this site for a couple of days, and just read through the recent posts. You welcome Boris and myself. We´re both long-timers, but thanks for your welcome anyway.

The point is taken that any labelling of a group of people based solely on their race, religion, nationality etc is wrong. Ideally, people should be judged on how they are as people. Travellers get labelled, the same as Muslims get labelled, or the Germans get labelled, or the working-class get labelled. It´s lazy thinking. Some travellers are OK people, some are not, same as any group of people.

Groups like the EDL work by blaming anything that is wrong in the country on immigrants, Muslims etc. Especially in a time of recession, it becomes easier for them to recruit people to their cause.

The key to getting rid of prejudice, racism, culturism etc has to be education. Somebody who is open to new ideas and can think critically is, in my opinion, less likely to lazily stereotype others based on any perceived difference of race, colour, ethnic group etc. But that is a long-term thing.

To be honest my 'welcome' was sarcasm...by that i mean while you are here and probably on others threads defending people against 'colourism' and 'creedism' i have never noticed either you or Boris on traveller threads confronting clear cultural (racial) abuse!

if im wrong and you have indeed confronted such then i apologise...for i might of missed a thread about that Travellers, regardless of how unlikely that is.

" The key to getting rid of prejudice, racism, culturism etc has to be education"

The basics way to educate someone is to tell them... especially when they are wrong..I haven't seen many on these threads telling those who racially abuse Travellers that they are wrong!

Especially not those who tell others (rightly so) that racially abusing people because of their skin colour is wrong.

There seems to be a two tier way of dealing with racial abuse on these threads, if its against any ethnic minority besides Travellers challenge it, if its against Travellers ignore it!

CJ1989 wrote:

6079 Smith W wrote:
CJ - Yes, it's a flaw in the article, but I'd already told you of the rainbow alliance across the political spectrum, including the city's MP, so you can't just blame the inaccuracy above. It was a failure to listen.

The stats are there, far-right activity sees an increase in racist attacks. I doubt the thugs involved in it in Welling in the 90s had ever read a book, but the fact the BNP were active in the area would clearly have given them confidence.

I welcome the fact that you've come along way from your original post, where you said the demonstration made your 'blood boil', as it seems your dislike of UAF is what makes your 'blood boil'. Difficult to comment on what you tell us about being threatened, as you've only given so much information as to what happened. Anyway, if it was as big a deal as you claim, you will be able to post a link to a website giving more details on what happened. I know exactly how fractious the left is (and yes, I know how often threats, and actual violence, that takes place between rival left groups, it really ain't pretty at times). What happened to you, if such a big deal, would have been jumped on by anti-SWP groups on the left, as a stick to beat them with.

How am I not listening? I appreciate that there is a massive range of people there. But the fact that UAF are in attendance makes a mockery of the demonstration. In the same way that the EDL turning up to support a 'national multiculturalism awareness day' would make a mockery of that.


If you really want links, feel free to have a read below:

It all started with a two-sided debate about multiculturalism at Durham university, the BNP were going to come along and would have been torn to bits. Then a letter came through from 2 NUS and UAF members:

http://www.politicsp

oliticalforum.com/po

litical-parties-foru

m/15358-bnp-invited-

speak-durham-univers

ity.html

I enjoy the moral blackmail and empty legal threats, but most offensive is the mention of bringing in coachloads of protesters and that "if any students are hurt in and around this event responsibility will lie with you". Nice.

The official reply was:

http://dsu.org.uk/fi

les/DSU_Joint_Commit

tee_Letter.doc

Which I agree with whole-heartedly. Very worryingly, personal contact details of durham university union officers were passed by the NUS to UAF, who then started receiving threatening phone calls, again with the promise of violence if the debate was not cancelled.

Eventually the police stepped in and said the debate had to be cancelled as they couldn't guarantee everyone's safety. This is how the UAF reported it, revelling in the fact that they had won through violent threats:

http://uaf.org.uk/20

10/02/victory-for-an

ti-fascists-as-durha

m-university-calls-o

ff-plans-for-%E2%80%

98debate%E2%80%99-wi

th-bnp-nazis/

They then had massive backlash from the university, leading to motions brought against the two people who wrote the letters, and the withdrawal of Durham from the NUS. UAF's line:

http://uaf.org.uk/20

10/04/students-unite

d-against-fascism-%E

2%80%93-defend-the-n

us-no-platform-polic

y/

And the result of all of this? A pathetic half-apology from the spineless then-NUS president, no further word from the people who wrote the letter in the first place (who are still preaching their own intolerance to anyone who will listen). Oh and the BNP got to do their 'pity us, we're the repressed underdog' act again.

http://www.palatinat

e.org.uk/?p=5951

Where they make all the people opposing the absurdity levelled at us by UAF and NUS look like support for them.

Oh and a coach-load of UAF supporters turned up on the day of the debate anyway, even though it had been cancelled in advance. I had the pleasure of meeting them, truly lovely people, once we got past another bout of scaremongering and threats of violence.

So no, I still think it's a waste of police time. They (and the EDL) are not fit to be involved in any protest or demonstration whatsoever, as they're incapable of behaving themselves. The rest of the rainbow alliance, sure, but not them.

Violent threats from the EDL - very much expected, but just know that somewhere there are UAF thugs having a very similar conversation about the other side. But everyone is happy to cosy up to them and show their support, as anti-fascism is at it's heart a good cause.

CJ - Very interesting post, thanks for the links. As said, I'm here to defend the demonstration organised by United Chelmsford, not the UAF's national leadership, which is of course the Socialist Workers Party. I've had issues with the SWP myself, and have seen them use extreme bullying. They have gained the nickname 'Sectarian W**kers Party' elsewhere on the left for a reason.

Not to say I agree with the BNP being invited by posh Durham (surprise, surprise, it's the posh ones who flout the no platform!) Yes, I might not like all of the no platform stuff, but I back it 100% in a university. Firstly, a university will not really expose the BNP to the public scrutiny you talk about, these places are known as ivory towers for a reason. Secondly, universities are very diverse environments (presumably even at Durham you weren't all white and rich?!). And thirdly, and this is the crucial one. The BNP have been desperate to gain a foothold in universities for years. The no platform policy preventing them from organising has really stopped them from doing this, and has been very bad news for them.

And to be honest, I really can't see the problem of warning anybody who's thinking of inviting a fascist speaker, that violence is likely (even If I wouldn't put it quite as you say). The glorification of violence is central to fascist ideology. OK, you might argue the UAF contains thugs, even led by thugs, but that's very different to a political philosophy that puts violence at its core.

E-Types.. wrote:

romantic wrote:
CJ, you may have a point in the sense that groups such as the BNP do tend to come out worst in any public debate (Nick Griffin on Question Time being a classic example). Although it is sad that they do have some support in the country, it is also reassuring that their support is not higher than having a few council seats.

It is sad on one level that the EDL felt able to march through Chelmsford, but also reassuring in a way that their numbers were not high. Look on the EDL website, and you will see that they spent several weeks trying to get people along, so the fact that comparatively few came should be seen as a positive thing. The fact that so many varied groups protested their presence is also a positive thing.

Although the UAF "organised" the counter-demo, not everybody there was under the wings of them. People are rightly abhorred by the EDL. However much their website may say otherwise, their demos are designed to promote fear. There is not going to be a rational debate between these thugs and those who oppose them. The people at the top of the EDL and BNP may well be articulate and give an impression of being fair-minded, but the people on the demo were the foot-soldiers, who have little interest in debating the issues.

E-types, I haven´t been on this site for a couple of days, and just read through the recent posts. You welcome Boris and myself. We´re both long-timers, but thanks for your welcome anyway.

The point is taken that any labelling of a group of people based solely on their race, religion, nationality etc is wrong. Ideally, people should be judged on how they are as people. Travellers get labelled, the same as Muslims get labelled, or the Germans get labelled, or the working-class get labelled. It´s lazy thinking. Some travellers are OK people, some are not, same as any group of people.

Groups like the EDL work by blaming anything that is wrong in the country on immigrants, Muslims etc. Especially in a time of recession, it becomes easier for them to recruit people to their cause.

The key to getting rid of prejudice, racism, culturism etc has to be education. Somebody who is open to new ideas and can think critically is, in my opinion, less likely to lazily stereotype others based on any perceived difference of race, colour, ethnic group etc. But that is a long-term thing.

To be honest my 'welcome' was sarcasm...by that i mean while you are here and probably on others threads defending people against 'colourism' and 'creedism' i have never noticed either you or Boris on traveller threads confronting clear cultural (racial) abuse!

if im wrong and you have indeed confronted such then i apologise...for i might of missed a thread about that Travellers, regardless of how unlikely that is.

" The key to getting rid of prejudice, racism, culturism etc has to be education"

The basics way to educate someone is to tell them... especially when they are wrong..I haven't seen many on these threads telling those who racially abuse Travellers that they are wrong!

Especially not those who tell others (rightly so) that racially abusing people because of their skin colour is wrong.

There seems to be a two tier way of dealing with racial abuse on these threads, if its against any ethnic minority besides Travellers challenge it, if its against Travellers ignore it!

E-types - You make some important points. Racism against travellers is probably the most acceptable form of racism today, even more so than against Muslims.

You also have a point about colourism and culturalism. The problem with the term racism is that it suggests the existence of different races. This is of course a falsehood, which was actually originally created to justify the slave trade (before that the view was we all came from Adam and Eve). The only differences between us are environmental. We all started out in Africa, but evolved different skin colours and characteristics to deal with different environments. And of course culture, the only other difference, can also be seen as environmental.

Please, just because I haven't mentioned travellers here, assume I'm anti. I'd have thought being described as a 'pikie lover' would demonstrate I've shown where I stand on this issue. I support the Traveller Solidarity Network, and was delighted to see it as part of the United Chelmsford demonstration, opposing the EDL.

6079 Smith W wrote:

E-Types.. wrote:

romantic wrote:
CJ, you may have a point in the sense that groups such as the BNP do tend to come out worst in any public debate (Nick Griffin on Question Time being a classic example). Although it is sad that they do have some support in the country, it is also reassuring that their support is not higher than having a few council seats.

It is sad on one level that the EDL felt able to march through Chelmsford, but also reassuring in a way that their numbers were not high. Look on the EDL website, and you will see that they spent several weeks trying to get people along, so the fact that comparatively few came should be seen as a positive thing. The fact that so many varied groups protested their presence is also a positive thing.

Although the UAF "organised" the counter-demo, not everybody there was under the wings of them. People are rightly abhorred by the EDL. However much their website may say otherwise, their demos are designed to promote fear. There is not going to be a rational debate between these thugs and those who oppose them. The people at the top of the EDL and BNP may well be articulate and give an impression of being fair-minded, but the people on the demo were the foot-soldiers, who have little interest in debating the issues.

E-types, I haven´t been on this site for a couple of days, and just read through the recent posts. You welcome Boris and myself. We´re both long-timers, but thanks for your welcome anyway.

The point is taken that any labelling of a group of people based solely on their race, religion, nationality etc is wrong. Ideally, people should be judged on how they are as people. Travellers get labelled, the same as Muslims get labelled, or the Germans get labelled, or the working-class get labelled. It´s lazy thinking. Some travellers are OK people, some are not, same as any group of people.

Groups like the EDL work by blaming anything that is wrong in the country on immigrants, Muslims etc. Especially in a time of recession, it becomes easier for them to recruit people to their cause.

The key to getting rid of prejudice, racism, culturism etc has to be education. Somebody who is open to new ideas and can think critically is, in my opinion, less likely to lazily stereotype others based on any perceived difference of race, colour, ethnic group etc. But that is a long-term thing.

To be honest my 'welcome' was sarcasm...by that i mean while you are here and probably on others threads defending people against 'colourism' and 'creedism' i have never noticed either you or Boris on traveller threads confronting clear cultural (racial) abuse!

if im wrong and you have indeed confronted such then i apologise...for i might of missed a thread about that Travellers, regardless of how unlikely that is.

" The key to getting rid of prejudice, racism, culturism etc has to be education"

The basics way to educate someone is to tell them... especially when they are wrong..I haven't seen many on these threads telling those who racially abuse Travellers that they are wrong!

Especially not those who tell others (rightly so) that racially abusing people because of their skin colour is wrong.

There seems to be a two tier way of dealing with racial abuse on these threads, if its against any ethnic minority besides Travellers challenge it, if its against Travellers ignore it!

E-types - You make some important points. Racism against travellers is probably the most acceptable form of racism today, even more so than against Muslims.

You also have a point about colourism and culturalism. The problem with the term racism is that it suggests the existence of different races. This is of course a falsehood, which was actually originally created to justify the slave trade (before that the view was we all came from Adam and Eve). The only differences between us are environmental. We all started out in Africa, but evolved different skin colours and characteristics to deal with different environments. And of course culture, the only other difference, can also be seen as environmental.

Please, just because I haven't mentioned travellers here, assume I'm anti. I'd have thought being described as a 'pikie lover' would demonstrate I've shown where I stand on this issue. I support the Traveller Solidarity Network, and was delighted to see it as part of the United Chelmsford demonstration, opposing the EDL.

" Please, just because I haven't mentioned travellers here, assume I'm anti. I'd have thought being described as a 'pikie lover' would demonstrate I've shown where I stand on this issue. I support the Traveller Solidarity Network, and was delighted to see it as part of the United Chelmsford demonstration, opposing the EDL."


The not mentioning of Travellers ISN"T why i assume some are 'anti' its the fact while they challenge racial abuse against other ethnic minorities they completely ignore abuse against Traveller... who are of course an ethnic minority too.

A question might be why defend ethnic minorities bar one?

Im not sure you were described as a p**** lover on this thread. and btw, if you were described as a n***** lover would you use the term even in inverted commas?

Isn't that a little proof of what i have been suggesting?
The 'right on' racism is shallow and more trendy than real

Im also a member of TSN and i would like to have thought any TSN member would have had other things to do with helping Travellers on the day rather than getting involved with controlled pantomime as this undoubtedly is.

Ironically It is the 'anti-racists' who dont' seem to recognise equality in 'racism' by not confronting and considering all racial abuse vile...the racists do recognise the equality and thus hate all ethnic minorities.

E-Types.. wrote:
Welcome romantic and Boris to the threads, i assume you have just recently decided to post on here.

The reason i assume that is because of the stance you have taken against, what some would consider, a racist or right wing organisation.

Its a pity you have only just arrived as the racial abuse and slur's on here aimed at Travellers could of done with the kind of comments you make on this thread.

I'm taking it as read that you would challenge racial abuse against Travellers not withstanding their skin colour.

I say that because, while there have been posters on here challenging those who would demonise Black/Asian people, they are noticeably quiet when it comes to challenging the same actions against Travellers..This might be seen by those who abuse different races and cultures as a bit hypocritical of those who defend ethnic minorities until it comes to a white ethic minority?

Hello E-Types, I have just seen your post. I actually went on the demo in Chelmsford, where (among many others) someone spoke from the TSN, and a very successful demo it was too. We saw off the EDL scum without any violence at all, thanks to the sterling work by Essex Police.
.
I only came on now because the story appeared in the Gazette's "most commented" list.
.
Anyway it is nice to know there is someone else who defends travellers. I don't remember your posts, but I posted here numerous times last autumn about the shameful eviction of the Dale Farm residents from their own property. I went to Dale Farm and met them. I am on the TSN's mailing list. I have also frequently defended travellers here in and around Colchester, and I have addressed our councillors in support of a travellers' site here, which I am glad to say was approved and is now in use.
Romantic has also been posting for several years and is one of the stars of the Gazette website - always on the side of the angels.
Now I have to assume you live in some other part of Essex, perhaps in the Echo area. I have been posting as Boris for 4 or 5 years now, maybe longer, and as others have pointed out, I have consistently supported travellers as well as other oppressed minorities. Type "dale farm" into the search box at the top of this page, go back to last September/October, and read through the threads, some of which contain several hundred posts apiece. You will find contributions from me, though I don't do it several times a day like some people.
.
Now for you. I really don't remember anyone called E-Types on these threads before. Did you previously post under another name?
.
Remember that if you are an Echo reader you will normally only see the articles specific to your area. Occasionally the Gannett Group, in its wisdom, chooses to make an article available to everyone in Essex. This appears to have happened in this case.
Anyway, good to read your posts, so keep up the good work.

Boris wrote:

E-Types.. wrote:
Welcome romantic and Boris to the threads, i assume you have just recently decided to post on here.

The reason i assume that is because of the stance you have taken against, what some would consider, a racist or right wing organisation.

Its a pity you have only just arrived as the racial abuse and slur's on here aimed at Travellers could of done with the kind of comments you make on this thread.

I'm taking it as read that you would challenge racial abuse against Travellers not withstanding their skin colour.

I say that because, while there have been posters on here challenging those who would demonise Black/Asian people, they are noticeably quiet when it comes to challenging the same actions against Travellers..This might be seen by those who abuse different races and cultures as a bit hypocritical of those who defend ethnic minorities until it comes to a white ethic minority?

Hello E-Types, I have just seen your post. I actually went on the demo in Chelmsford, where (among many others) someone spoke from the TSN, and a very successful demo it was too. We saw off the EDL scum without any violence at all, thanks to the sterling work by Essex Police.
.
I only came on now because the story appeared in the Gazette's "most commented" list.
.
Anyway it is nice to know there is someone else who defends travellers. I don't remember your posts, but I posted here numerous times last autumn about the shameful eviction of the Dale Farm residents from their own property. I went to Dale Farm and met them. I am on the TSN's mailing list. I have also frequently defended travellers here in and around Colchester, and I have addressed our councillors in support of a travellers' site here, which I am glad to say was approved and is now in use.
Romantic has also been posting for several years and is one of the stars of the Gazette website - always on the side of the angels.
Now I have to assume you live in some other part of Essex, perhaps in the Echo area. I have been posting as Boris for 4 or 5 years now, maybe longer, and as others have pointed out, I have consistently supported travellers as well as other oppressed minorities. Type "dale farm" into the search box at the top of this page, go back to last September/October, and read through the threads, some of which contain several hundred posts apiece. You will find contributions from me, though I don't do it several times a day like some people.
.
Now for you. I really don't remember anyone called E-Types on these threads before. Did you previously post under another name?
.
Remember that if you are an Echo reader you will normally only see the articles specific to your area. Occasionally the Gannett Group, in its wisdom, chooses to make an article available to everyone in Essex. This appears to have happened in this case.
Anyway, good to read your posts, so keep up the good work.

I have had many guises having being deleted off here many times and even on one occasion for solely reporting racial abuse in a post, also for reporting a poster who while copying the near exact user name and then posting derogatory comments.

I have since September last year being challenging sheer racial abuse on these threads and in one or two cases threats to harm or incitement to murder! Those and other threads have been saved and made available with the view of posters being held responsible for their law breaking as im sure they are happy to be, they being law abiding citizens.

Unfortunately i have read posters, who while challenging anything even remotely discriminatory or racial about other ethnic minority, have ignored the same about Travellers while posting on the same thread. These people, imo, i no better than those who they challenge!

There are also decent people who comment around the racial abuse on the same threads who i feel would make a massive difference if they object to the poster using racial abuse...this has happened on one occasion and a whole pack of racial hyenas, i was confronting on my own, backed off immediately and actually left the thread like the curs they undoubtedly are. One comment from a neutral and these racists flee yelping back to the right wing forums they usually litter.

Hopefully convictions will be made in regards to the crime on this forum and a message will be sent to those who would abuse a person community because of their culture that it isn't acceptable anymore.

This country cannot claim to be a beacon of tolerance while racism and discrimination against Travellers is not only acceptable but via the media.

If i accuse anyone out of ignorance then i profusely apologise to that person.

E-Types.. wrote:

6079 Smith W wrote:

E-Types.. wrote:

romantic wrote:
CJ, you may have a point in the sense that groups such as the BNP do tend to come out worst in any public debate (Nick Griffin on Question Time being a classic example). Although it is sad that they do have some support in the country, it is also reassuring that their support is not higher than having a few council seats.

It is sad on one level that the EDL felt able to march through Chelmsford, but also reassuring in a way that their numbers were not high. Look on the EDL website, and you will see that they spent several weeks trying to get people along, so the fact that comparatively few came should be seen as a positive thing. The fact that so many varied groups protested their presence is also a positive thing.

Although the UAF "organised" the counter-demo, not everybody there was under the wings of them. People are rightly abhorred by the EDL. However much their website may say otherwise, their demos are designed to promote fear. There is not going to be a rational debate between these thugs and those who oppose them. The people at the top of the EDL and BNP may well be articulate and give an impression of being fair-minded, but the people on the demo were the foot-soldiers, who have little interest in debating the issues.

E-types, I haven´t been on this site for a couple of days, and just read through the recent posts. You welcome Boris and myself. We´re both long-timers, but thanks for your welcome anyway.

The point is taken that any labelling of a group of people based solely on their race, religion, nationality etc is wrong. Ideally, people should be judged on how they are as people. Travellers get labelled, the same as Muslims get labelled, or the Germans get labelled, or the working-class get labelled. It´s lazy thinking. Some travellers are OK people, some are not, same as any group of people.

Groups like the EDL work by blaming anything that is wrong in the country on immigrants, Muslims etc. Especially in a time of recession, it becomes easier for them to recruit people to their cause.

The key to getting rid of prejudice, racism, culturism etc has to be education. Somebody who is open to new ideas and can think critically is, in my opinion, less likely to lazily stereotype others based on any perceived difference of race, colour, ethnic group etc. But that is a long-term thing.

To be honest my 'welcome' was sarcasm...by that i mean while you are here and probably on others threads defending people against 'colourism' and 'creedism' i have never noticed either you or Boris on traveller threads confronting clear cultural (racial) abuse!

if im wrong and you have indeed confronted such then i apologise...for i might of missed a thread about that Travellers, regardless of how unlikely that is.

" The key to getting rid of prejudice, racism, culturism etc has to be education"

The basics way to educate someone is to tell them... especially when they are wrong..I haven't seen many on these threads telling those who racially abuse Travellers that they are wrong!

Especially not those who tell others (rightly so) that racially abusing people because of their skin colour is wrong.

There seems to be a two tier way of dealing with racial abuse on these threads, if its against any ethnic minority besides Travellers challenge it, if its against Travellers ignore it!

E-types - You make some important points. Racism against travellers is probably the most acceptable form of racism today, even more so than against Muslims.

You also have a point about colourism and culturalism. The problem with the term racism is that it suggests the existence of different races. This is of course a falsehood, which was actually originally created to justify the slave trade (before that the view was we all came from Adam and Eve). The only differences between us are environmental. We all started out in Africa, but evolved different skin colours and characteristics to deal with different environments. And of course culture, the only other difference, can also be seen as environmental.

Please, just because I haven't mentioned travellers here, assume I'm anti. I'd have thought being described as a 'pikie lover' would demonstrate I've shown where I stand on this issue. I support the Traveller Solidarity Network, and was delighted to see it as part of the United Chelmsford demonstration, opposing the EDL.

" Please, just because I haven't mentioned travellers here, assume I'm anti. I'd have thought being described as a 'pikie lover' would demonstrate I've shown where I stand on this issue. I support the Traveller Solidarity Network, and was delighted to see it as part of the United Chelmsford demonstration, opposing the EDL."


The not mentioning of Travellers ISN"T why i assume some are 'anti' its the fact while they challenge racial abuse against other ethnic minorities they completely ignore abuse against Traveller... who are of course an ethnic minority too.

A question might be why defend ethnic minorities bar one?

Im not sure you were described as a p**** lover on this thread. and btw, if you were described as a n***** lover would you use the term even in inverted commas?

Isn't that a little proof of what i have been suggesting?
The 'right on' racism is shallow and more trendy than real

Im also a member of TSN and i would like to have thought any TSN member would have had other things to do with helping Travellers on the day rather than getting involved with controlled pantomime as this undoubtedly is.

Ironically It is the 'anti-racists' who dont' seem to recognise equality in 'racism' by not confronting and considering all racial abuse vile...the racists do recognise the equality and thus hate all ethnic minorities.

What an utterly absurd post, from an utterly absurd individual. It's a shame, because some good points have been raised. But to attack a fellow TSN supporter is disgraceful, and shameful. Clearly, the fact e-types chooses to describe an anti-racist demonstration as a 'pantomime', shows she/he is a very poor defender of travellers rights. Travellers were among the first groups targeted by the Nazis, after all.

I would hope a fellow TSN supporter would take a holistic view, and oppose injustice in all its forms. I would hope a fellow TSN supporter wouldn't try to harm the organisation, by causing division. I would hope a fellow TSN supporter would not display racism, as e-types did when she/he started talking about different races. There is just one race, the human race.

Of course, if I'd been described as suggested by e-types, I would have reported that. But well now didn't call me that, in a post (Friday, 5.31pm) that was not only aimed at e-types, she/he even responded. God knows how e-types missed it! Anyway, I sincerely hope e-types never witnesses racist abuse, because she/he would make a very bad witness indeed!

6079 Smith W wrote:

E-Types.. wrote:

6079 Smith W wrote:

E-Types.. wrote:

romantic wrote: CJ, you may have a point in the sense that groups such as the BNP do tend to come out worst in any public debate (Nick Griffin on Question Time being a classic example). Although it is sad that they do have some support in the country, it is also reassuring that their support is not higher than having a few council seats. It is sad on one level that the EDL felt able to march through Chelmsford, but also reassuring in a way that their numbers were not high. Look on the EDL website, and you will see that they spent several weeks trying to get people along, so the fact that comparatively few came should be seen as a positive thing. The fact that so many varied groups protested their presence is also a positive thing. Although the UAF "organised" the counter-demo, not everybody there was under the wings of them. People are rightly abhorred by the EDL. However much their website may say otherwise, their demos are designed to promote fear. There is not going to be a rational debate between these thugs and those who oppose them. The people at the top of the EDL and BNP may well be articulate and give an impression of being fair-minded, but the people on the demo were the foot-soldiers, who have little interest in debating the issues. E-types, I haven´t been on this site for a couple of days, and just read through the recent posts. You welcome Boris and myself. We´re both long-timers, but thanks for your welcome anyway. The point is taken that any labelling of a group of people based solely on their race, religion, nationality etc is wrong. Ideally, people should be judged on how they are as people. Travellers get labelled, the same as Muslims get labelled, or the Germans get labelled, or the working-class get labelled. It´s lazy thinking. Some travellers are OK people, some are not, same as any group of people. Groups like the EDL work by blaming anything that is wrong in the country on immigrants, Muslims etc. Especially in a time of recession, it becomes easier for them to recruit people to their cause. The key to getting rid of prejudice, racism, culturism etc has to be education. Somebody who is open to new ideas and can think critically is, in my opinion, less likely to lazily stereotype others based on any perceived difference of race, colour, ethnic group etc. But that is a long-term thing.

To be honest my 'welcome' was sarcasm...by that i mean while you are here and probably on others threads defending people against 'colourism' and 'creedism' i have never noticed either you or Boris on traveller threads confronting clear cultural (racial) abuse! if im wrong and you have indeed confronted such then i apologise...for i might of missed a thread about that Travellers, regardless of how unlikely that is. " The key to getting rid of prejudice, racism, culturism etc has to be education" The basics way to educate someone is to tell them... especially when they are wrong..I haven't seen many on these threads telling those who racially abuse Travellers that they are wrong! Especially not those who tell others (rightly so) that racially abusing people because of their skin colour is wrong. There seems to be a two tier way of dealing with racial abuse on these threads, if its against any ethnic minority besides Travellers challenge it, if its against Travellers ignore it!

E-types - You make some important points. Racism against travellers is probably the most acceptable form of racism today, even more so than against Muslims. You also have a point about colourism and culturalism. The problem with the term racism is that it suggests the existence of different races. This is of course a falsehood, which was actually originally created to justify the slave trade (before that the view was we all came from Adam and Eve). The only differences between us are environmental. We all started out in Africa, but evolved different skin colours and characteristics to deal with different environments. And of course culture, the only other difference, can also be seen as environmental. Please, just because I haven't mentioned travellers here, assume I'm anti. I'd have thought being described as a 'pikie lover' would demonstrate I've shown where I stand on this issue. I support the Traveller Solidarity Network, and was delighted to see it as part of the United Chelmsford demonstration, opposing the EDL.

" Please, just because I haven't mentioned travellers here, assume I'm anti. I'd have thought being described as a 'pikie lover' would demonstrate I've shown where I stand on this issue. I support the Traveller Solidarity Network, and was delighted to see it as part of the United Chelmsford demonstration, opposing the EDL." The not mentioning of Travellers ISN"T why i assume some are 'anti' its the fact while they challenge racial abuse against other ethnic minorities they completely ignore abuse against Traveller... who are of course an ethnic minority too. A question might be why defend ethnic minorities bar one? Im not sure you were described as a p**** lover on this thread. and btw, if you were described as a n***** lover would you use the term even in inverted commas? Isn't that a little proof of what i have been suggesting? The 'right on' racism is shallow and more trendy than real Im also a member of TSN and i would like to have thought any TSN member would have had other things to do with helping Travellers on the day rather than getting involved with controlled pantomime as this undoubtedly is. Ironically It is the 'anti-racists' who dont' seem to recognise equality in 'racism' by not confronting and considering all racial abuse vile...the racists do recognise the equality and thus hate all ethnic minorities.

What an utterly absurd post, from an utterly absurd individual. It's a shame, because some good points have been raised. But to attack a fellow TSN supporter is disgraceful, and shameful. Clearly, the fact e-types chooses to describe an anti-racist demonstration as a 'pantomime', shows she/he is a very poor defender of travellers rights. Travellers were among the first groups targeted by the Nazis, after all. I would hope a fellow TSN supporter would take a holistic view, and oppose injustice in all its forms. I would hope a fellow TSN supporter wouldn't try to harm the organisation, by causing division. I would hope a fellow TSN supporter would not display racism, as e-types did when she/he started talking about different races. There is just one race, the human race. Of course, if I'd been described as suggested by e-types, I would have reported that. But well now didn't call me that, in a post (Friday, 5.31pm) that was not only aimed at e-types, she/he even responded. God knows how e-types missed it! Anyway, I sincerely hope e-types never witnesses racist abuse, because she/he would make a very bad witness indeed!

Well said Winston, my sentiments exactly. E-types needs to calm down, and recognise that he cannot solve the problems of travellers all on his own, and that their struggle is part of a wider struggle. He also needs to recognise that what we did in Chelmsford on Saturday (where many supporters of the travellers took part, flying the Roma flag, etc) was much more important and useful than writing a few hostile posts on this thread.

Thank-you, Boris. Yes, those at Saturday's demonstration, and all of us who have actively taken anti-racism campaigns, and the Dale farm campaign, into our local community, have done far more than the hostility displayed on this website.

E-Types.. wrote:

Boris wrote:

E-Types.. wrote:
Welcome romantic and Boris to the threads, i assume you have just recently decided to post on here.

The reason i assume that is because of the stance you have taken against, what some would consider, a racist or right wing organisation.

Its a pity you have only just arrived as the racial abuse and slur's on here aimed at Travellers could of done with the kind of comments you make on this thread.

I'm taking it as read that you would challenge racial abuse against Travellers not withstanding their skin colour.

I say that because, while there have been posters on here challenging those who would demonise Black/Asian people, they are noticeably quiet when it comes to challenging the same actions against Travellers..This might be seen by those who abuse different races and cultures as a bit hypocritical of those who defend ethnic minorities until it comes to a white ethic minority?

Hello E-Types, I have just seen your post. I actually went on the demo in Chelmsford, where (among many others) someone spoke from the TSN, and a very successful demo it was too. We saw off the EDL scum without any violence at all, thanks to the sterling work by Essex Police.
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I only came on now because the story appeared in the Gazette's "most commented" list.
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Anyway it is nice to know there is someone else who defends travellers. I don't remember your posts, but I posted here numerous times last autumn about the shameful eviction of the Dale Farm residents from their own property. I went to Dale Farm and met them. I am on the TSN's mailing list. I have also frequently defended travellers here in and around Colchester, and I have addressed our councillors in support of a travellers' site here, which I am glad to say was approved and is now in use.
Romantic has also been posting for several years and is one of the stars of the Gazette website - always on the side of the angels.
Now I have to assume you live in some other part of Essex, perhaps in the Echo area. I have been posting as Boris for 4 or 5 years now, maybe longer, and as others have pointed out, I have consistently supported travellers as well as other oppressed minorities. Type "dale farm" into the search box at the top of this page, go back to last September/October, and read through the threads, some of which contain several hundred posts apiece. You will find contributions from me, though I don't do it several times a day like some people.
.
Now for you. I really don't remember anyone called E-Types on these threads before. Did you previously post under another name?
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Remember that if you are an Echo reader you will normally only see the articles specific to your area. Occasionally the Gannett Group, in its wisdom, chooses to make an article available to everyone in Essex. This appears to have happened in this case.
Anyway, good to read your posts, so keep up the good work.

I have had many guises having being deleted off here many times and even on one occasion for solely reporting racial abuse in a post, also for reporting a poster who while copying the near exact user name and then posting derogatory comments.

I have since September last year being challenging sheer racial abuse on these threads and in one or two cases threats to harm or incitement to murder! Those and other threads have been saved and made available with the view of posters being held responsible for their law breaking as im sure they are happy to be, they being law abiding citizens.

Unfortunately i have read posters, who while challenging anything even remotely discriminatory or racial about other ethnic minority, have ignored the same about Travellers while posting on the same thread. These people, imo, i no better than those who they challenge!

There are also decent people who comment around the racial abuse on the same threads who i feel would make a massive difference if they object to the poster using racial abuse...this has happened on one occasion and a whole pack of racial hyenas, i was confronting on my own, backed off immediately and actually left the thread like the curs they undoubtedly are. One comment from a neutral and these racists flee yelping back to the right wing forums they usually litter.

Hopefully convictions will be made in regards to the crime on this forum and a message will be sent to those who would abuse a person community because of their culture that it isn't acceptable anymore.

This country cannot claim to be a beacon of tolerance while racism and discrimination against Travellers is not only acceptable but via the media.

If i accuse anyone out of ignorance then i profusely apologise to that person.

I don´t know how long you have been posting on these threads. Unless it has been under a different name, I have not seen much from “E-types” over the couple of years or so that I have been posting. If you had read other threads, you will certainly see that Boris and 6079-Smith-W have regularly posted threads which are pro-traveler, and they have received a fair amount of abuse for it.

To say that Smithy should not be there to show opposition to the EDL, because he should be too busy supporting the travelers: that is a fairly spurious argument, especially as the TSN were there as well.

These threads are full of racism, against all minority groups. The anonymity means that people tend to say what they really think. However unpalatable their views are, the fact is that these people do exist. Those of us who are anti-racist regularly tell them that they are wrong. Strangely, this does not seem to sway them much in their views. When I said education is the key, I was thinking longer-term. Short-term, talking seems to work best. People fear the unknown, and groups like the EDL feed on that. When people get to know their immigrant or Muslim neighbours, or their traveler neighbours, and find that actually they are OK, that´s how racism gets cut down. Lots of the people on this site seem to get their views from tabloids, esp the Mail and Express, where every day is a drip-feed of stories which add up to a very one-sided view of the world.

The travelers are feared by much of mainstream society. Like it or not, that is the reality. Of course, the travelers also experience a lot of antagonism in everyday life, and the effect is that they do not trust mainstream society (whatever that is) and vice versa. As with racism against any other group, a lot of it is driven by fear of the unknown.

There is plenty of racism in this country, and while your angle is clearly focused on that aimed at travelers, the fact is that people like the EDL are there, in Chelmsford. Would you prefer that they be allowed to march through Chelmsford without anybody telling them they are wrong?

You know, the worst aspect of this now is that those who are basically anti-racist are now almost trying to score points off of each other, while the keyboard hero racists will just carry on posting their stuff regardless. Boris and 6079 Smith W are on the same side as you, they are not the opposition.

6079 Smith W wrote:

E-Types.. wrote:

6079 Smith W wrote:

E-Types.. wrote:

romantic wrote:
CJ, you may have a point in the sense that groups such as the BNP do tend to come out worst in any public debate (Nick Griffin on Question Time being a classic example). Although it is sad that they do have some support in the country, it is also reassuring that their support is not higher than having a few council seats.

It is sad on one level that the EDL felt able to march through Chelmsford, but also reassuring in a way that their numbers were not high. Look on the EDL website, and you will see that they spent several weeks trying to get people along, so the fact that comparatively few came should be seen as a positive thing. The fact that so many varied groups protested their presence is also a positive thing.

Although the UAF "organised" the counter-demo, not everybody there was under the wings of them. People are rightly abhorred by the EDL. However much their website may say otherwise, their demos are designed to promote fear. There is not going to be a rational debate between these thugs and those who oppose them. The people at the top of the EDL and BNP may well be articulate and give an impression of being fair-minded, but the people on the demo were the foot-soldiers, who have little interest in debating the issues.

E-types, I haven´t been on this site for a couple of days, and just read through the recent posts. You welcome Boris and myself. We´re both long-timers, but thanks for your welcome anyway.

The point is taken that any labelling of a group of people based solely on their race, religion, nationality etc is wrong. Ideally, people should be judged on how they are as people. Travellers get labelled, the same as Muslims get labelled, or the Germans get labelled, or the working-class get labelled. It´s lazy thinking. Some travellers are OK people, some are not, same as any group of people.

Groups like the EDL work by blaming anything that is wrong in the country on immigrants, Muslims etc. Especially in a time of recession, it becomes easier for them to recruit people to their cause.

The key to getting rid of prejudice, racism, culturism etc has to be education. Somebody who is open to new ideas and can think critically is, in my opinion, less likely to lazily stereotype others based on any perceived difference of race, colour, ethnic group etc. But that is a long-term thing.

To be honest my 'welcome' was sarcasm...by that i mean while you are here and probably on others threads defending people against 'colourism' and 'creedism' i have never noticed either you or Boris on traveller threads confronting clear cultural (racial) abuse!

if im wrong and you have indeed confronted such then i apologise...for i might of missed a thread about that Travellers, regardless of how unlikely that is.

" The key to getting rid of prejudice, racism, culturism etc has to be education"

The basics way to educate someone is to tell them... especially when they are wrong..I haven't seen many on these threads telling those who racially abuse Travellers that they are wrong!

Especially not those who tell others (rightly so) that racially abusing people because of their skin colour is wrong.

There seems to be a two tier way of dealing with racial abuse on these threads, if its against any ethnic minority besides Travellers challenge it, if its against Travellers ignore it!

E-types - You make some important points. Racism against travellers is probably the most acceptable form of racism today, even more so than against Muslims.

You also have a point about colourism and culturalism. The problem with the term racism is that it suggests the existence of different races. This is of course a falsehood, which was actually originally created to justify the slave trade (before that the view was we all came from Adam and Eve). The only differences between us are environmental. We all started out in Africa, but evolved different skin colours and characteristics to deal with different environments. And of course culture, the only other difference, can also be seen as environmental.

Please, just because I haven't mentioned travellers here, assume I'm anti. I'd have thought being described as a 'pikie lover' would demonstrate I've shown where I stand on this issue. I support the Traveller Solidarity Network, and was delighted to see it as part of the United Chelmsford demonstration, opposing the EDL.

" Please, just because I haven't mentioned travellers here, assume I'm anti. I'd have thought being described as a 'pikie lover' would demonstrate I've shown where I stand on this issue. I support the Traveller Solidarity Network, and was delighted to see it as part of the United Chelmsford demonstration, opposing the EDL."


The not mentioning of Travellers ISN"T why i assume some are 'anti' its the fact while they challenge racial abuse against other ethnic minorities they completely ignore abuse against Traveller... who are of course an ethnic minority too.

A question might be why defend ethnic minorities bar one?

Im not sure you were described as a p**** lover on this thread. and btw, if you were described as a n***** lover would you use the term even in inverted commas?

Isn't that a little proof of what i have been suggesting?
The 'right on' racism is shallow and more trendy than real

Im also a member of TSN and i would like to have thought any TSN member would have had other things to do with helping Travellers on the day rather than getting involved with controlled pantomime as this undoubtedly is.

Ironically It is the 'anti-racists' who dont' seem to recognise equality in 'racism' by not confronting and considering all racial abuse vile...the racists do recognise the equality and thus hate all ethnic minorities.

What an utterly absurd post, from an utterly absurd individual. It's a shame, because some good points have been raised. But to attack a fellow TSN supporter is disgraceful, and shameful. Clearly, the fact e-types chooses to describe an anti-racist demonstration as a 'pantomime', shows she/he is a very poor defender of travellers rights. Travellers were among the first groups targeted by the Nazis, after all.

I would hope a fellow TSN supporter would take a holistic view, and oppose injustice in all its forms. I would hope a fellow TSN supporter wouldn't try to harm the organisation, by causing division. I would hope a fellow TSN supporter would not display racism, as e-types did when she/he started talking about different races. There is just one race, the human race.

Of course, if I'd been described as suggested by e-types, I would have reported that. But well now didn't call me that, in a post (Friday, 5.31pm) that was not only aimed at e-types, she/he even responded. God knows how e-types missed it! Anyway, I sincerely hope e-types never witnesses racist abuse, because she/he would make a very bad witness indeed!

I see, because you disagree with someone who has been looking and dealing with these issues all their life's, their opinons, posts and person become utterly absurd!

Im not abused when i raise points that you consider good but when i raise others you dont consider good im absurd. Err Okay....to continue

Has a TSN supporter been attacked or is that just your 'absurd' opinion?

It's clear that when you write 'clearly' you are anything but clear about what i have actually posted. Did i describe a anti-racist march as a pantomime? If not then you must really try to resist posting cloudy opinons as fact!

Your opinion of whether i am a good defender of Traveller rights is again your own opinion, i defend Travellers rights by confronting those who racially abuse Travellers rights ie the right not to be racially abused.

I dont do this by going on march's to defend against racism per se but defend specifically. Can you say the same?
I have not seen you confronting or defending on one thread in which there was racial abuse against Travellers ( of which there are many) And that was the point i was making to all those who rant on about racism while ignoring it against Travellers. There lies the question WHY?

I have spent 11 months on this forum, mostly alone, challenging and confronting racial abuse against Travellers...i really dont hold much faith in the opinion of how good or bad a defender of my own culture i am by someone, who to date, i havent seen one post from specially challenging racial abuse against Travellers or the posters, but i have seen you use a term, albeit in inverted commas, that Travellers find abusive and offensive ( you never answered the question in relation to this may i remind you)

Is there any evidence posted by me that gives credibility to you implying i do not "oppose injustice in all its forms " ? Or does it suit your purpose to pretend this is a fact? Can you quote the post in which i display racism by talking about races? If not then i would expect you to apologise for such a slur.

I would say the great harm to any stance against racism is the picking and choosing of who racism can be allowed against and who it cant.

The right on anti's seem happy enough to allow it against Travellers by their non-confrontation of it other than within a general stance, while ignoring it when its specifically against Travellers and in their faces as it is on these threads!

I too believe in a one race world and have said so on many otyher threads when dealing with racialism, i also posted on here . "Racism i feel is not the correct word when dealing with hate because of difference...Colouri
sm and Culturism is, imo, more appropriate."

The comment by the idiot 'well now' i see does indeed include you, it was over looked...the rest of your post on his comment i cant make head nor tale of.

I have been a victim of and witnessed racial abuse mostly all my life, even within these threads so your hopes are shattered a bit like your stupid post.

Those who denounce racism are themselves not above denouncement and i, coming from a culture that see's daily discrimination by those who claim to be anti-racist, denounce said people for their hip trendiness in the matter or their culture/colourism or in their own words RACISM!

Boris wrote:

6079 Smith W wrote:

E-Types.. wrote:

6079 Smith W wrote:

E-Types.. wrote:

romantic wrote: CJ, you may have a point in the sense that groups such as the BNP do tend to come out worst in any public debate (Nick Griffin on Question Time being a classic example). Although it is sad that they do have some support in the country, it is also reassuring that their support is not higher than having a few council seats. It is sad on one level that the EDL felt able to march through Chelmsford, but also reassuring in a way that their numbers were not high. Look on the EDL website, and you will see that they spent several weeks trying to get people along, so the fact that comparatively few came should be seen as a positive thing. The fact that so many varied groups protested their presence is also a positive thing. Although the UAF "organised" the counter-demo, not everybody there was under the wings of them. People are rightly abhorred by the EDL. However much their website may say otherwise, their demos are designed to promote fear. There is not going to be a rational debate between these thugs and those who oppose them. The people at the top of the EDL and BNP may well be articulate and give an impression of being fair-minded, but the people on the demo were the foot-soldiers, who have little interest in debating the issues. E-types, I haven´t been on this site for a couple of days, and just read through the recent posts. You welcome Boris and myself. We´re both long-timers, but thanks for your welcome anyway. The point is taken that any labelling of a group of people based solely on their race, religion, nationality etc is wrong. Ideally, people should be judged on how they are as people. Travellers get labelled, the same as Muslims get labelled, or the Germans get labelled, or the working-class get labelled. It´s lazy thinking. Some travellers are OK people, some are not, same as any group of people. Groups like the EDL work by blaming anything that is wrong in the country on immigrants, Muslims etc. Especially in a time of recession, it becomes easier for them to recruit people to their cause. The key to getting rid of prejudice, racism, culturism etc has to be education. Somebody who is open to new ideas and can think critically is, in my opinion, less likely to lazily stereotype others based on any perceived difference of race, colour, ethnic group etc. But that is a long-term thing.

To be honest my 'welcome' was sarcasm...by that i mean while you are here and probably on others threads defending people against 'colourism' and 'creedism' i have never noticed either you or Boris on traveller threads confronting clear cultural (racial) abuse! if im wrong and you have indeed confronted such then i apologise...for i might of missed a thread about that Travellers, regardless of how unlikely that is. " The key to getting rid of prejudice, racism, culturism etc has to be education" The basics way to educate someone is to tell them... especially when they are wrong..I haven't seen many on these threads telling those who racially abuse Travellers that they are wrong! Especially not those who tell others (rightly so) that racially abusing people because of their skin colour is wrong. There seems to be a two tier way of dealing with racial abuse on these threads, if its against any ethnic minority besides Travellers challenge it, if its against Travellers ignore it!

E-types - You make some important points. Racism against travellers is probably the most acceptable form of racism today, even more so than against Muslims. You also have a point about colourism and culturalism. The problem with the term racism is that it suggests the existence of different races. This is of course a falsehood, which was actually originally created to justify the slave trade (before that the view was we all came from Adam and Eve). The only differences between us are environmental. We all started out in Africa, but evolved different skin colours and characteristics to deal with different environments. And of course culture, the only other difference, can also be seen as environmental. Please, just because I haven't mentioned travellers here, assume I'm anti. I'd have thought being described as a 'pikie lover' would demonstrate I've shown where I stand on this issue. I support the Traveller Solidarity Network, and was delighted to see it as part of the United Chelmsford demonstration, opposing the EDL.

" Please, just because I haven't mentioned travellers here, assume I'm anti. I'd have thought being described as a 'pikie lover' would demonstrate I've shown where I stand on this issue. I support the Traveller Solidarity Network, and was delighted to see it as part of the United Chelmsford demonstration, opposing the EDL." The not mentioning of Travellers ISN"T why i assume some are 'anti' its the fact while they challenge racial abuse against other ethnic minorities they completely ignore abuse against Traveller... who are of course an ethnic minority too. A question might be why defend ethnic minorities bar one? Im not sure you were described as a p**** lover on this thread. and btw, if you were described as a n***** lover would you use the term even in inverted commas? Isn't that a little proof of what i have been suggesting? The 'right on' racism is shallow and more trendy than real Im also a member of TSN and i would like to have thought any TSN member would have had other things to do with helping Travellers on the day rather than getting involved with controlled pantomime as this undoubtedly is. Ironically It is the 'anti-racists' who dont' seem to recognise equality in 'racism' by not confronting and considering all racial abuse vile...the racists do recognise the equality and thus hate all ethnic minorities.

What an utterly absurd post, from an utterly absurd individual. It's a shame, because some good points have been raised. But to attack a fellow TSN supporter is disgraceful, and shameful. Clearly, the fact e-types chooses to describe an anti-racist demonstration as a 'pantomime', shows she/he is a very poor defender of travellers rights. Travellers were among the first groups targeted by the Nazis, after all. I would hope a fellow TSN supporter would take a holistic view, and oppose injustice in all its forms. I would hope a fellow TSN supporter wouldn't try to harm the organisation, by causing division. I would hope a fellow TSN supporter would not display racism, as e-types did when she/he started talking about different races. There is just one race, the human race. Of course, if I'd been described as suggested by e-types, I would have reported that. But well now didn't call me that, in a post (Friday, 5.31pm) that was not only aimed at e-types, she/he even responded. God knows how e-types missed it! Anyway, I sincerely hope e-types never witnesses racist abuse, because she/he would make a very bad witness indeed!

Well said Winston, my sentiments exactly. E-types needs to calm down, and recognise that he cannot solve the problems of travellers all on his own, and that their struggle is part of a wider struggle. He also needs to recognise that what we did in Chelmsford on Saturday (where many supporters of the travellers took part, flying the Roma flag, etc) was much more important and useful than writing a few hostile posts on this thread.

I think you holding the same sentiments as the poster in question is rather worrying especially when most of what the poster said has been rebutted to the point of her post being meaningless!

I am very calm, its a trait i have, but i would ask should those who confront racism' be likewise told to calm down by. say, an EDL supporter?

The point i make is valid, there are those who to 'be right on' will denounce, confront and challenge racism against Black/Asian people yet ignore same against Travellers.

In the eyes of the Traveller are they any better than those who abuse them? Imo, NO!
For the result for the Traveller is the same.

I recognise any challenge to racism as being important and more so if it is specific... but to follow on from your logic, Would a government act making racism a mandatory 2 year prison term be much more important and useful than COUNTERmarching waving flags...does that mean marching is not important and useful?

NO?

Then why should confronting actual racial abuse in the form of posting be less important and useful than waving flags against racists? This is where i get the flavour of "what we do is better than what you do because..." confronting racists individually ( as i do on here) is better, imo, that having a two sided chanting event...what do either side learn from that that they dont already know?

6 months ago there was approx 10 serial racists on here against posting the most vile racist abuse and slurs against Travellers but since they find themselves confronted EVERY TIME they make a racial remark or slur against Travellers they have lessend to about half that.

Interesting enough two or three of the worse are on this very thread ( excluding the dimwit 'well now' who's user name suggest he is being too optimistic) and they havent made a customary racial remark...did flag waving stop them from doing that? Or constant verbal confrontation? They Know, i know what i think and you and the other poster are no wiser.

I am a Traveller! I have spent all my life, to date, confronting hate because of difference (under whatever name you want to call it) I do not need to be told what i am or not in regards to my challenge to the 'differencism' especially by those who have never to my knowledge openly challenged on here those who post racial abuse against Travellers.

Confronting racism isn't an ideology, hobby, or a bonding rite but a way of life for me, a fight to protect the next generation from what we have endured....remember that when next you agree to sentiment how absurd i am.

6079 Smith W wrote:
Thank-you, Boris. Yes, those at Saturday's demonstration, and all of us who have actively taken anti-racism campaigns, and the Dale farm campaign, into our local community, have done far more than the hostility displayed on this website.

Your post goes without saying !

romantic wrote:

E-Types.. wrote:

Boris wrote:

E-Types.. wrote:
Welcome romantic and Boris to the threads, i assume you have just recently decided to post on here.

The reason i assume that is because of the stance you have taken against, what some would consider, a racist or right wing organisation.

Its a pity you have only just arrived as the racial abuse and slur's on here aimed at Travellers could of done with the kind of comments you make on this thread.

I'm taking it as read that you would challenge racial abuse against Travellers not withstanding their skin colour.

I say that because, while there have been posters on here challenging those who would demonise Black/Asian people, they are noticeably quiet when it comes to challenging the same actions against Travellers..This might be seen by those who abuse different races and cultures as a bit hypocritical of those who defend ethnic minorities until it comes to a white ethic minority?

Hello E-Types, I have just seen your post. I actually went on the demo in Chelmsford, where (among many others) someone spoke from the TSN, and a very successful demo it was too. We saw off the EDL scum without any violence at all, thanks to the sterling work by Essex Police.
.
I only came on now because the story appeared in the Gazette's "most commented" list.
.
Anyway it is nice to know there is someone else who defends travellers. I don't remember your posts, but I posted here numerous times last autumn about the shameful eviction of the Dale Farm residents from their own property. I went to Dale Farm and met them. I am on the TSN's mailing list. I have also frequently defended travellers here in and around Colchester, and I have addressed our councillors in support of a travellers' site here, which I am glad to say was approved and is now in use.
Romantic has also been posting for several years and is one of the stars of the Gazette website - always on the side of the angels.
Now I have to assume you live in some other part of Essex, perhaps in the Echo area. I have been posting as Boris for 4 or 5 years now, maybe longer, and as others have pointed out, I have consistently supported travellers as well as other oppressed minorities. Type "dale farm" into the search box at the top of this page, go back to last September/October, and read through the threads, some of which contain several hundred posts apiece. You will find contributions from me, though I don't do it several times a day like some people.
.
Now for you. I really don't remember anyone called E-Types on these threads before. Did you previously post under another name?
.
Remember that if you are an Echo reader you will normally only see the articles specific to your area. Occasionally the Gannett Group, in its wisdom, chooses to make an article available to everyone in Essex. This appears to have happened in this case.
Anyway, good to read your posts, so keep up the good work.

I have had many guises having being deleted off here many times and even on one occasion for solely reporting racial abuse in a post, also for reporting a poster who while copying the near exact user name and then posting derogatory comments.

I have since September last year being challenging sheer racial abuse on these threads and in one or two cases threats to harm or incitement to murder! Those and other threads have been saved and made available with the view of posters being held responsible for their law breaking as im sure they are happy to be, they being law abiding citizens.

Unfortunately i have read posters, who while challenging anything even remotely discriminatory or racial about other ethnic minority, have ignored the same about Travellers while posting on the same thread. These people, imo, i no better than those who they challenge!

There are also decent people who comment around the racial abuse on the same threads who i feel would make a massive difference if they object to the poster using racial abuse...this has happened on one occasion and a whole pack of racial hyenas, i was confronting on my own, backed off immediately and actually left the thread like the curs they undoubtedly are. One comment from a neutral and these racists flee yelping back to the right wing forums they usually litter.

Hopefully convictions will be made in regards to the crime on this forum and a message will be sent to those who would abuse a person community because of their culture that it isn't acceptable anymore.

This country cannot claim to be a beacon of tolerance while racism and discrimination against Travellers is not only acceptable but via the media.

If i accuse anyone out of ignorance then i profusely apologise to that person.

I don´t know how long you have been posting on these threads. Unless it has been under a different name, I have not seen much from “E-types” over the couple of years or so that I have been posting. If you had read other threads, you will certainly see that Boris and 6079-Smith-W have regularly posted threads which are pro-traveler, and they have received a fair amount of abuse for it.

To say that Smithy should not be there to show opposition to the EDL, because he should be too busy supporting the travelers: that is a fairly spurious argument, especially as the TSN were there as well.

These threads are full of racism, against all minority groups. The anonymity means that people tend to say what they really think. However unpalatable their views are, the fact is that these people do exist. Those of us who are anti-racist regularly tell them that they are wrong. Strangely, this does not seem to sway them much in their views. When I said education is the key, I was thinking longer-term. Short-term, talking seems to work best. People fear the unknown, and groups like the EDL feed on that. When people get to know their immigrant or Muslim neighbours, or their traveler neighbours, and find that actually they are OK, that´s how racism gets cut down. Lots of the people on this site seem to get their views from tabloids, esp the Mail and Express, where every day is a drip-feed of stories which add up to a very one-sided view of the world.

The travelers are feared by much of mainstream society. Like it or not, that is the reality. Of course, the travelers also experience a lot of antagonism in everyday life, and the effect is that they do not trust mainstream society (whatever that is) and vice versa. As with racism against any other group, a lot of it is driven by fear of the unknown.

There is plenty of racism in this country, and while your angle is clearly focused on that aimed at travelers, the fact is that people like the EDL are there, in Chelmsford. Would you prefer that they be allowed to march through Chelmsford without anybody telling them they are wrong?

You know, the worst aspect of this now is that those who are basically anti-racist are now almost trying to score points off of each other, while the keyboard hero racists will just carry on posting their stuff regardless. Boris and 6079 Smith W are on the same side as you, they are not the opposition.

I have stated i have been on here under different user names because of admins wisdom of delating those who confront their resident racists!

I have been on virtually every Traveller thread that has been on here since september last year and many more that although not Traveller related have deteriorated into 'Traveller abuse' I cannot say i have seen either of them or yourself on these threads.


"To say that Smithy should not be there to show opposition to the EDL, because he should be too busy supporting the travelers: that is a fairly spurious argument"

Re-reading the post will show i didn't say what you state i did.

Of course these sites are full of the dross of the racist but are you suggesting because they dont learn when confronted no one should bother to confront them? Couldn't the same be said about marching to confront?

"Those of us who are anti-racist regularly tell them that they are wrong. Strangely, this does not seem to sway them much in their views"

The real strange thing about it is while the racial abuse aimed at Travellers is plentiful the condemnation of the posting offender is minimal if at all! That fact cannot or should not be over-looked... how ever convenient

I agree with what you say about racism but that isn't the issue at hand here is it?

I have been stating that there are those who will challenge racism against all on communities on here but are suspiciously silent when it comes to Traveller abuse...of course those who have replied to this can show im wrong by providing a post they submitted challenging such abuse...in fact one of them actually gets insulting because i raise the subject while another suggests i calm down which i take to actually mean 'dont mention' Hypocrisy my friend is also as rife on here as racism!

As you state the unknown is frightening to people and thus people are led to fear Travellers by that and of course the media, who of course have an agenda to make Traveller life unattractive to those who might consider it as life screws are tightened to breaking point. How do you get a person to not consider something as viable? Get them to despise it.

The EDL exist and will march... i do not say they shouldn't be confronted as i believe all racism should be confronted, but if confrontation of racism is on the cards then it shouldn't exclude a community which is what seems to happen on here in regards to racial abuse.

My comment on TSN members attending was along the lines i would rather have them on here confronting and engaging racists first hand than chanting and flag waving each other from a distance.

Because i am confronting racism against Travellers then of course my angle is aimed at Travellers and Traveller abusers..i do not look to score points but point out concerns and maybe expose hypocrisy to those who might not even be aware of such.

The racist 'keyboard hero' is more likely to be cowed or indeed educated by confrontation on a personal level than those who have taken the trouble to shine their boots, make their placards and flags and travel to voice their hate while in a large group. They at least have the opportunity to be dealing with one of those they hate on a personal level...as you say they cant help but get to know their 'opponent' over a period of time. AND that has happened to me on here, a poster who constantly posted racial abusive comments on Travellers and spent weeks arguing and swopping insults with me found on other matter were were in agreement to the point the insults and abuse STOP and he even stated to side with me against some who post anti-Traveller rubbish that was not true...ie marrying cousins was illegal. This would never of happened while he waved a flag at a march but did while he debated, insulted, abused and then came to an understanding we were both human beings...

The posters you mentioned are not considered, by me, to be on the same side as me till i see them defending Travellers. they have simular beliefs as me but then so did the (ex) Traveller abuser.

Opposing racism is much more complex than just saying you oppose it, especially when you ignore it happening under your nose.

E-types, can I clarify one thing here: Boris, Smith and myself are on the Gazette site in Colchester. I think you are on the Echo site. It is only very occasionally that the same stories run on both and people from both regions can comment. That would be why you have not seen our names before.

romantic wrote:
E-types, can I clarify one thing here: Boris, Smith and myself are on the Gazette site in Colchester. I think you are on the Echo site. It is only very occasionally that the same stories run on both and people from both regions can comment. That would be why you have not seen our names before.

" I have not seen much from “E-types” over the couple of years or so that I have been posting. If you had read other threads, you will certainly see that Boris and 6079-Smith-W have regularly posted threads which are pro-traveler"

The fact you post this on this site implies you and they have been commenting on this site and not another.
Perhaps that is were the confusion lies in regards to yourself and the others but of course that doesn't change the fact that there are those on here who dont defend Travellers from racial abuse but are ready to defend other ethnic minorities begging the question why.

It also doesn't explain Smiths posts suggesting i am racist etc Im waiting with interest her reply to my post.

We are starting to go round in circles here. What you call "this site" is the Echo site, correct? What I am looking at is the Gazette site. When you post comments on the Echo site, we do not normally see them. When we post comments on the Gazette site, you do not normally see them. For this specific story, for whatever reason, it is on both sites.

It is all well and good having a protracted online debate with people, and I do genuinely congratulate you on persuading some people to change their views. But remember that these sites are a very small sample of the population. In the Gazette area, there are perhaps 100 regular people commenting, from a population of (guesstimating) 300,000. Those 10 racists you have reduced down to half are not the only 10 racists in the Echo area!

Most of the racists out there are not posting on this website. The EDL march is a very visible thing in the heart of Chelmsford and has a far bigger impact on the general population than the comments section of the Echo or Gazette.

The fact that somebody is not posting to defend travellers on every comment does not mean that they are somehow anti-traveller. If somebody is ranting about immigration, for example, the reply will tend to focus on that topic. Both Boris and Smithy have been on this site (the Gazette one) over all the time I have, and have always defended the travellers, Boris more than anybody else. Both get a fair bit of abuse for it.

Sorry, E-types, but you´re becoming a bit of a one-trick pony on this. Racism is real and happens every day, and not just to travellers. By all means confront a few trolls on a website, but people like the EDL are more worrying to me than those keyboard heroes.

romantic wrote:
We are starting to go round in circles here. What you call "this site" is the Echo site, correct? What I am looking at is the Gazette site. When you post comments on the Echo site, we do not normally see them. When we post comments on the Gazette site, you do not normally see them. For this specific story, for whatever reason, it is on both sites.

It is all well and good having a protracted online debate with people, and I do genuinely congratulate you on persuading some people to change their views. But remember that these sites are a very small sample of the population. In the Gazette area, there are perhaps 100 regular people commenting, from a population of (guesstimating) 300,000. Those 10 racists you have reduced down to half are not the only 10 racists in the Echo area!

Most of the racists out there are not posting on this website. The EDL march is a very visible thing in the heart of Chelmsford and has a far bigger impact on the general population than the comments section of the Echo or Gazette.

The fact that somebody is not posting to defend travellers on every comment does not mean that they are somehow anti-traveller. If somebody is ranting about immigration, for example, the reply will tend to focus on that topic. Both Boris and Smithy have been on this site (the Gazette one) over all the time I have, and have always defended the travellers, Boris more than anybody else. Both get a fair bit of abuse for it.

Sorry, E-types, but you´re becoming a bit of a one-trick pony on this. Racism is real and happens every day, and not just to travellers. By all means confront a few trolls on a website, but people like the EDL are more worrying to me than those keyboard heroes.

I understand the issue about two different sites but its clear by what you have posted that people would infer you were implying that you and they post on THIS comments section.

Im fully aware that the posters on here are a very small number of the population and the racists an even smaller sample, but of course that is the same in regards to those who attend march's waving flags for the EDL, so whats your point?

Rasism comes down to convincing the individual that they are wrong to believe a person who is different is some how worth less than you. So even while confronting them in large groups it still come down to the singular person!

" The fact that somebody is not posting to defend travellers on every comment does not mean that they are somehow anti-traveller"

I dont think that has been said has it? The thing that i notice about you, smith and boris is how you twist whats said to paraphrase a comment in a derogatory manner to suit your contention.

The point i was making, which seems to have upset you and the two others, was there are those ON HERE who will jump to defend ethnic minorities ON EVERY POST while ignoring clear specific racial abuse against Travellers... even going to the trouble of defending other communities around the Traveller abuse on the same thread! WHY? People can come to their own conclusions.

I do not say you or the other two do that but i remarked, going off what you and they implied, that i have never seen you or them defending Travellers against racial abuse on here, and that now seems to be correct going by you own explanation.

Strangely enough all i have done is state something that has now proven to be the case and yet you, "one trick pony " and smith "utterly absurd individual" and boris "My sentiments exactly" in regards to that smith thread, feel the need to emote in this way on the matter.

I stated on one post "If i accuse anyone out of ignorance then i profusely apologise to that person." it would seem that apology isn't needed.

I do not consider racist abuse to be the actions of trolls but of racists! I would never palm off such abuse as so petty.

What worries you is what worries you but to my mind confronting racism is getting to the individual not shouting at the individual from distance and from an opposing 'gang'

romantic wrote:
E-types, can I clarify one thing here: Boris, Smith and myself are on the Gazette site in Colchester. I think you are on the Echo site. It is only very occasionally that the same stories run on both and people from both regions can comment. That would be why you have not seen our names before.

I already explained this to him (Tuesday 12.23 pm) but he is so obsessed with uttering his own thoughts that he does not bother to read those by people who try to answer him.
I can't be bothered arguing with him any more. His heart seems to be in the right place but he is so obsessed by the idea that everyone else except him is on the wrong.
E-types, I wish you would come out on these demos and show your face, then we could all realise that you are a human being after all. But as long as you limit yourself to your own "keyboard hero" performances, you will remain on your own.

Sorry: "in the wrong", not "on the wrong".

e-ytpes - The reason I didn't come back was because I was sick of 'point scoring' against somebody I shouldn't be arguing with. But as you've pushed me on it, the sentence: 'Travellers are in deed a race if they decide they are, for they would fit some criteria for such', sounded dangerously close to the idea of different races to me, especially when you see the comment you were responding to, which was telling you that 'they aint a race their outcasts (sic - in more than one way)'. But I didn't call you racist, merely that that sentence, in that context, displayed racism, because the idea of different races is the essential starting point of any racism.

I have often felt very isolated when discussing travellers on here (that's the Gazette for me), as I'm sure you have (on the Echo). We should both be pleased to find anybody else who's is like minded. So quit thinking your superior to everybody else, and start thinking how we can work together to oppose racism.

Boris wrote:

romantic wrote:
E-types, can I clarify one thing here: Boris, Smith and myself are on the Gazette site in Colchester. I think you are on the Echo site. It is only very occasionally that the same stories run on both and people from both regions can comment. That would be why you have not seen our names before.

I already explained this to him (Tuesday 12.23 pm) but he is so obsessed with uttering his own thoughts that he does not bother to read those by people who try to answer him.
I can't be bothered arguing with him any more. His heart seems to be in the right place but he is so obsessed by the idea that everyone else except him is on the wrong.
E-types, I wish you would come out on these demos and show your face, then we could all realise that you are a human being after all. But as long as you limit yourself to your own "keyboard hero" performances, you will remain on your own.

Rubbish and you know it...here fill your boots on this thread but be quick before the racists that are not on the streets simply waving flags back at you get it locked

http://www.echo-news
.co.uk/news/9887206.
Plans_go_in_for_Dale
_Farm_2/?action=succ
ess

6079 Smith W wrote:
e-ytpes - The reason I didn't come back was because I was sick of 'point scoring' against somebody I shouldn't be arguing with. But as you've pushed me on it, the sentence: 'Travellers are in deed a race if they decide they are, for they would fit some criteria for such', sounded dangerously close to the idea of different races to me, especially when you see the comment you were responding to, which was telling you that 'they aint a race their outcasts (sic - in more than one way)'. But I didn't call you racist, merely that that sentence, in that context, displayed racism, because the idea of different races is the essential starting point of any racism.

I have often felt very isolated when discussing travellers on here (that's the Gazette for me), as I'm sure you have (on the Echo). We should both be pleased to find anybody else who's is like minded. So quit thinking your superior to everybody else, and start thinking how we can work together to oppose racism.

Reread the comment, It clearly states that travellers have the right to consider themselves a race if they so wish, it doesn't say i do, or that they speak for me or i for them.

" But I didn't call you racist"

The next quoted comment might seem to contradict that.

" I would hope a fellow TSN supporter would not display racism, as e-types did when she/he started talking about different races."

A person who displays racism is a? Or will you now try to redefine racism and racists?

I do not feel isolated, far from it, when i engage with the racist scum i feel the whole of my community with me...

I do not in anyway think i am superior but the fact you think i do might suggest you do so because you feel inferior, which would be no fault of mine.





Heres a way to oppose racism, get confronting on this thread before the racist get it locked.

http://www.echo-news

.co.uk/news/9887206.

Plans_go_in_for_Dale

_Farm_2/?action=succ

ess






http://www.echo-news

.co.uk/news/9887206.

Plans_go_in_for_Dale

_Farm_2/?action=succ

ess

I don't need to re-read the comment, though perhaps you do? What's the point of selectively quoting yourself, and not only missing out what you went onto say, but most importantly the context in which you said it? We can all go back and re-read it, to see you're now just attempting an Orwellian re-write of history.

Do I really need to go through it again? I don't think your past belief in different races makes you a racist (glad you've moved on so quickly). It displays ignorance, and is the essential starting point for racism (so clearly displays it). But I'm not as judgemental as you (is anybody?), so I won't call you a racist. It's too harsh in my view to label all those with a belief in different races as racist.

It's been explained to you most coherently by others that your internet heroism is just a p*ss in the ocean. You will change nothing from your keyboard. Get out in the world and try to do something about it, rather than sit on your own in front of your PC. No wonder you have such a terrible inability to interact with other people, and have managed to completely alienate the liberal-left regulars on here. This is my last post, because sorry, I've frankly given up on you. You are just sad and pathetic.

http://www.gazette-n
ews.co.uk/news/98880
54.Air_show_traders_
could_be_blocked_by_
traveller_group/?act
ion=success

OK, one last comment, you could (if you really think about it, and quit thinking your better than everybody else), have something useful to say on this. But if you want to argue the toss with Boris and me, f*ck right off.

6079 Smith W wrote:
I don't need to re-read the comment, though perhaps you do? What's the point of selectively quoting yourself, and not only missing out what you went onto say, but most importantly the context in which you said it? We can all go back and re-read it, to see you're now just attempting an Orwellian re-write of history.

Do I really need to go through it again? I don't think your past belief in different races makes you a racist (glad you've moved on so quickly). It displays ignorance, and is the essential starting point for racism (so clearly displays it). But I'm not as judgemental as you (is anybody?), so I won't call you a racist. It's too harsh in my view to label all those with a belief in different races as racist.

It's been explained to you most coherently by others that your internet heroism is just a p*ss in the ocean. You will change nothing from your keyboard. Get out in the world and try to do something about it, rather than sit on your own in front of your PC. No wonder you have such a terrible inability to interact with other people, and have managed to completely alienate the liberal-left regulars on here. This is my last post, because sorry, I've frankly given up on you. You are just sad and pathetic.

Then why dont you quote what it was i said if you feel i have misquoted. (*to self* "i wonder what excuse she will come up with now not to use a quote")

I have always, since i can remember , believed there was only one race, did you, or was it when you got all 'right on'? I have stated that on here on many occasions going back over the 10 months i have been on here.

It is also you who seems to have the quick turn arounds, you imply im a racist then deny thats what you meant. if i didn't believe in a multi-race world then how could i display racism by saying that?

Did i actually say that? if so where? You have thought something, thought i said it and then accused me of displaying racism. WOW.

Believing in race isn't the starting point for racism, or even a criteria imo. You could believe in a one race community and still display racism via attacks on a persons culture.

" But I'm not as judgemental as you ' That is only your opinion i dont agree and your name calling on here might also show just how judgemental you are.

I have also explained to you and the others your marching waving flags and shouting obscenities and Ra R Ra and another gang doing the exact same has not the slightest impact on the racists or their abuse on here. But that doesn't seem to registar. I have been on the streets and engaged with the racists and i have also engaged with them on here, have you done both? (Here being the echo where there is a cess pit of them)

I have changed much from my keyboard and have seen the change, have you seen any change via your chanting and flag waving? What i will raise and change from my endeavours on here i hope will make a legal precedent or legal history, will whirling flags and sing-songing do the same?

I think its you who needs to get your head out of your **** and look around you, you seem to think that 'right on' attitude will change things, it hasn't in all the years its been hip to flip the finger at the racist. at best it drives racism under ground where it is still applied or it actually recruits for the right-wing.

I do much for my community and confront racists no matter what ethnic minority they attack, as my posts on here will confirm. I'm also involved with many organisation who's events i attend in regards to racism.

I'm a Traveller and thus might have a way of looking at things and people that isn't the norm but to suggest i cant interact with people because of that smaks of racism!

if the liberal-left are you, boris and romance then you feel alienated because i asked why you hadn't been on the echo threads about Travellers confronting the racists there! That is the truth of the matter and if you are alienated by the truth then what real use are you to anyone. Best stick to flag waving and chanting.


Can i point out that neither you, Boris, or romance has come onto the thread i posted to you to confront the racist there!

Perhaps your waiting for them to be marching down the street waving flags before you do so, much more fun that way.

Ill give you a shout if they start abusing other ethnic minorities and ill see you then.

Btw, when i get as sad, pathetic and obvious as you ill start to worry.

HEY Boris, romance, and the other one, the thread i posted is still up. Im surprised not to see a few posts from you all there, as you have mentioned you are wont to do this when you see or hear of racist abuse on such comments sections.

Ill look out for you..but wont hold my breath.

6079 Smith W wrote:
http://www.gazette-n

ews.co.uk/news/98880

54.Air_show_traders_

could_be_blocked_by_

traveller_group/?act

ion=success

OK, one last comment, you could (if you really think about it, and quit thinking your better than everybody else), have something useful to say on this. But if you want to argue the toss with Boris and me, f*ck right off.

When you or your fellow trendy 'right oner's' are seen to be confronting racists against Travellers on the echo site ill consider coming over to see what happening on the link you provided... till then Please take your own advice.

Too late...the thread has been locked.