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Braintree: Pub industry supports new campaign to save trade (From Braintree and Witham Times)
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Braintree: Pub industry supports new campaign to save trade
5:36pm Wednesday 28th January 2009
A new campaign to help the struggling pub industry has been welcomed at a crisis meeting for the trade.
Industry representatives from North Essex, including the Braintree area, gathered at the Queens Head near Coggeshall yesterday to discuss how to challenge the blanket ban on smoking inside establishments.
They believe the Government legislation, which came into force in summer 2007, has seriously damaged trade, with Paul Lofthouse, who runs the Queens Head, describing the industry as being in “dire straits.”
They backed a new campaign called “Save pubs and clubs - amend the smoking ban” which was put forward by Simon Clark, the director of the lobby group Forest, which is a voice and friend of the smoker.
It is planned the nationwide initiative, which would be a coalition of different groups, will be launched in six to eight weeks with the aim of amending the Government legislation so there may be the option for pubs to be smoking or non-smoking, or have a smoking room.
Brendan Flynn, who owns Brendan’s pub in East Street and Club Eden in High Street, both in Braintree, was one of the 25 or so people who attended the meeting.
Afterwards he said: “Everybody there did support it and I thought it was great. It’s a step in the right direction to try and help the publicans.”
Martin Dockrell, director of policy and research at ASH, which campaigns to eliminate the harm caused by tobacco, said people “overwhelmingly” supported the smoking ban.
He said: “No-one wants to turn the clocks back to smoky pubs, not least because we know how harmful it is to people’s health.”
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Your Say YourTimes
BJO, Essex says...
11:45pm Wed 28 Jan 09
Martin Dockrell from ASH (Paid out of taxpayers money) is lying when he states that the people of the world overwhelmingly support the smoking ban.
We were at the conference to fight for the right to be able to go into our local pubs and not have to stand outside to have a cigarette. We want the freedom to choose. A freedom where a landlord can decide if they want a smoking or non smoking establishment or have adequate ventilation to be able to satisfy both sides of the debate.
We are being lied to regards the damage of so called 'second hand smoke' and the figures of the public's 'opinions' are totally fabricated.
Have our group of individuals been given any publicity ? No, is the simple answer. The 'powers that be' would like us all to think that the people of this country are quite happy with this spiteful ban that isolates our communities, pits smoker against non-smoker and is crippling the hospitality industries.
We have not had many protests from the publicans (apart from the few that have lost their livelihoods in fighting this ban) The publicans were told that there would be hords of non-smokers going to the pubs once the 'filthy' smoker was eliminated from the inside area of the pubs. The publicans thought that the smoker would be quite happy to stand out in all weathers to smoke, and still buy their drinks.
On both counts the publicans were wrong.
It's now about time the publicans made their voice heard.
They can't leave it too long though, as the smokers just may decide that they prefer to stay at home as they have done since July 1st 2007
chris w, U.K says...
12:06am Thu 29 Jan 09
Totally agree with you and the overwhelming support for Smoking bans are tosh as well ! O.N.S Surveys several years running stated that 70 to 80 % of people wanted a choice ,i.e Smoking pubs or rooms etc.,not total bans and yes Mr.Dockrill people DO want to turn the clocks back , many people I know including myself do not venture to the pub anymore ,non Smokers as well as they have no atmosphere , being quiet empty and a sterile environment , a pub should be a place where you can relax and that is hard to do if you are constantly getting up to go outside AND getting cold and wet in the process ? who wants to pay good money for that ?
helend, Wigan says...
12:07am Thu 29 Jan 09
The original, unbiased survey showed that only 33% of people wanted a blanket ban and 67% were against it.
You know that, I know that, millions more know that. Could you please explain to those who aren't aware already how you came to the conclusion that states that the majority wanted the blanket ban?
I know what it happened, and you do too - why not let everyone know?
By the way - I'd return to the pubs tomorrow if a separate smoking room was allowed. Just a slight amendment is all that's needed to save the industry so that all citizens are catered for.
helend, Wigan says...
12:34am Thu 29 Jan 09
What a huge piece of misinformation used in the lobbying stages - I don't see them apologising though over the loss of jobs in the industry, do you?
I just wonder how many MPs voted for the ban as a result of this misinformation. Don't you Martin?
marley, manchester says...
12:52am Thu 29 Jan 09
marley, manchester says...
1:04am Thu 29 Jan 09
marley, manchester says...
1:26am Thu 29 Jan 09
Press people, let me suggest you look at another angle to this pub thing. do some research on how many associated trades i.e. carpet fitters,upholsterers
, builders, plasterers, painter/decorators, plumbers, electricians, tv installers. musicians, glaziers, sign writers, vending machine, snack company's, darts, pool, cards, gardeners, locksmiths, bar support, light bulb manufacturers, furniture suppliers, advertising agencies and a dozen different charities including sally army, cancer, British Legion and local hospices. ALL of these plus many more are suffering losses because of this spiteful and devisive ban, and so are the taxman and vatman by even more. All on the back of questionable "science" by a few well paid smoke haters.
PLEASE open your eyes.
sandrajean1955, Essex says...
1:38am Thu 29 Jan 09
marley, manchester says...
2:21am Thu 29 Jan 09
He said: “No-one wants to turn the clocks back to smoky pubs, not least because we know how harmful it is to people’s health.”
In my opinion, three huge lies by this person. I would challenge all three of them. 1. "overwhelmingly supported" The names of these supporters and their connection with tobacco control should be available to be reviewed by a non biased ombudsman. 2. "no-one" I believe is a personal opinion because I for one and I am sure many others would love to turn back that particular clock. 3. The harm is most definitely Not proven and in any event it should be a warning to those who choose to frequent those establishments not an order by a minority who do not even want to inhabit these establishments anyway.
What is going on here is simple, straightforward bigotry as a means to control and it should have no place in British society. It's failure will have ramifications beyond a few pillicks. It will ultimately place doubt in science and justice for millions of free thinking people.
If this person worked for me, I would sack him on the grounds of gross misconduct for misrepresentation and deception and recommend legal prosecution on the grounds of fraud.
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
11:08am Thu 29 Jan 09
BJO, Essex says...
9:06pm Thu 29 Jan 09
You are tunnel visioned and obviously do not see the bigger picture as you appear so anti and biased that you are blind to the facts.
The pubs WILL disappear if the smokers are not accommodated in any of them. The smokers do not wish to upset the non-smokers and are quite prepared to visit pubs with separate smoking rooms, well ventilated smoking and non-smoking pubs and to have pubs that are given the choice to be total non-smoking or to allow smoking. Of course the choice then will be there for your type to go to non-smoking pubs. If your type continue in your crusade to eliminate smokers from society then YOU will not be able to go to a pub as they will be gone.
Nitro, London says...
10:15pm Thu 29 Jan 09
You would think that the are there to educate and guide the public but it has gone much further than that they are there to dictate to you.
The days of compassion and education have been replaced by pure anti smoking bigotry and hatred all supported by the government.
These government stakeholder groups know no bounds, they are persecuting the mentally afflicted, the incasterated , the aged and the dying. Terminally ill patients are going home to die as they are not allowed a cigarette in their dying days.
Their statistics are flawed, and they use the tactic of repetition.
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
7:04pm Fri 30 Jan 09
BJO can be assured that the only factor restricting my vision is the clouds of smoke outside and near pub doorways, and that I am more than capable of seeing the bigger picture. It is most charitable of smokers to allow non-smokers the luxury of visiting well ventilated pubs, but a little late as they showed no consideration towards them in the bad old smoke filled days pre 1/7/07. "My type" is more than happy to enjoy the civilised amenity of fug free pubs, and feels no desire to eliminate smokers from society, as they're achievng this end by themselves by their obnoxious habit. If BJO and "his type" choose to take the humph and stay at home, puffing away freely, any loss of pubs will be down to them.
Otherwise, I'll be happy to see them there, but without the fug, thankfully.
beezar, brooklyn,ny says...
4:20am Sat 31 Jan 09
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
10:43am Sat 31 Jan 09
Et ta soeur, as they say, bud.
Glad I haven't disappointed.
BJO, Essex says...
8:17pm Sat 31 Jan 09
Ah! So now we have it !! The antis are trying to get their own back !!!
It's 'tit for tat'.
Unfortunately the smokers have chosen not to visit pubs as much and we see the closures daily due to this fact. Please don't quote the 'credit crunch' as we have gone through previous recessions without the loss of licenced premises.
If anti smokers are now not willing to 'share' well ventilated pubs, then they too will have no choice when all the pubs are gone.
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
9:43pm Sat 31 Jan 09
This non-smoker is quite happy to share well, or even badly, ventilated pubs with smokers, as long as they leave their obnoxious cigarette smoke outside, or at home.
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
9:44pm Sat 31 Jan 09
This non-smoker is quite happy to share well, or even badly, ventilated pubs with smokers, as long as they leave their obnoxious cigarette smoke outside, or at home.
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
9:45pm Sat 31 Jan 09
This non-smoker is quite happy to share well, or even badly, ventilated pubs with smokers, as long as they leave their obnoxious cigarette smoke outside, or at home.
chas, suffolk says...
9:40am Sun 1 Feb 09
chas, suffolk says...
2:16pm Sun 1 Feb 09
beezar, brooklyn,ny says...
7:14pm Sun 1 Feb 09
Glad to see folks in Blighty finally getting wise.
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
10:16pm Sun 1 Feb 09
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
10:23pm Sun 1 Feb 09
7:14pm Sun 1 Feb 09.
Beezar has learned the hard way that there's just no family loyalty any more.
Sorry to see that not all folks in Brooklyn finally getting wise.
chas, suffolk says...
10:32pm Sun 1 Feb 09
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
12:05pm Mon 2 Feb 09
The two thronged pubs were decidedly not fictitious, any more than the lack of tobacco fumes or the prices quoted. Chas. is free to promulgate any theory he chooses to suit his F2S pro smokers agenda, but must recall that all things are relative. Many people in the U.K. don't find alcohol "cheap", so maybe it's only the non-smokers who can afford the prices in pubs? Sure beats sitting at home in front of the "tellie" with "tinnies" from the "offie"!
chas, suffolk says...
1:11pm Mon 2 Feb 09
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
2:39pm Mon 2 Feb 09
Since the advent of smoking restrictions, the vast majority of pub regulars are not smoking inside the pubs.
Fredrik Eich, Brighton says...
5:58pm Mon 2 Feb 09
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
6:43pm Mon 2 Feb 09
Given that it is highly unlikely that the Health Act, 2006, will be repealed, it would seem sensible that those smokers who have shunned pubs flock back and "create 100,000 (?) jobs" This would help recover lost employment caused by their action and maintain choice for the millions(?) of people who prior to the ban shunned smoke filled venues. Did Herr Oak really mean to say that "milions of people prior to the ban shunned smokefree venues"? Smokers are welcome to join non-smokers in fug free venues, and make their little minority contribution. After all, every little helps.
Fredrik Eich, Brighton says...
7:38pm Mon 2 Feb 09
Yes millions of people prior to the ban did indeed shun smokefree venues, people who smoke and their friends.
Given the current dire economic circumstances, the smoking prohibition part of the 2006 Health Act should be repealed as a matter of urgency - this would put valuable extra footfall into the trade and create jobs pretty much overnight. This is likely to happen given that there was such a high demand for fuggy venues prior to the Act. So a quick repeal would inject much needed cash and restore choice for people.
For example if one were to ban all restaurants except indian ones more people would go to indian ones because they have no other choice.
But this does not change the fact that millions of people would like to eat at chinese ones. It's no good people who want to go to indian ones saying you can eat chinese but not inside here, have a takeaway outside, when the ban could be lifted to allow chinese restaurants.
More Jobs!
More Choice!
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
9:32pm Mon 2 Feb 09
Shunning smoke free pubs prior to 1/7/07 would scarcely have been difficult, as there were so few of them. Most restaurants even had smoking sections for those who relished the flavour of cigarette ash over their chicken and chips or beef Madras.
A return to pubs by smokers would inject the much needed cash Fredrik seems so keen on, whilst allowing non-smokers the choice of enjoying a fug free atmosphere.
Fredrik's analogy of Asian and Chinese restaurants is disingenuous, as pubs and restaurants still have the same variety of drinks and food available as before, the only difference being the lack of smoke, ash, cigarette butts and similar detritus.
So smokers-more jobs, your choice!
Just leave the fags at home, or is that just too difficult to contemplate?
chas, suffolk says...
9:54pm Mon 2 Feb 09
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
10:00pm Mon 2 Feb 09
Has chas. never noticed that smoke drifts. Outside air is a relatively good agent for dispersing unwelcome fumes.
beezar, brooklyn,ny says...
10:10pm Mon 2 Feb 09
You're right, lots of folks in Brooklyn still don't get it, as there's no real movement to rescind the ban, just clandestine violation.
Leaving the fags home not an option. Get over yourself.
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
10:25pm Mon 2 Feb 09
Perhaps Sis has sussed out Bro. more than he knows in the usual cunning female way.
Brooklynites remind me of juvenile Brits.' habit of smoking behind the bike sheds. Doesn't Brooklyn have bike sheds?
Leaving the fags at home a definite option, or wasn't beezar referring to cigarettes? He should get over himself, or some one, perhaps.
chas, suffolk says...
10:31pm Mon 2 Feb 09
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
10:38pm Mon 2 Feb 09
Apart from other considerations, like use of common toilets, smokers also drift between areas, and couldn't be relied upon to stay in their "own" territory. Best to keep the status quo, and let them go outside to satisfy their addiction.
Mind you, Bill Gibson would appreciate chas' sentiments.
chas, suffolk says...
11:06pm Mon 2 Feb 09
Fredrik Eich, Brighton says...
11:23pm Mon 2 Feb 09
I did not mean to sound disingenuous, I was just trying to put the job losses in a different context.
So try this analogy. Action on Alcohol and Health successfully campaign for a zero risk approach for alchohol in the work place.
This incudes pubs and restaurants. The reasoning is that there is risk of "booze related" violence towards staff and customers by other customers
who choose to drink in those places. The reasoning is that restaurants are for food and that you should not need to drink just to enjoy your self. And that
to level the playing field pubs must be included wether they sell food or not. In this situation also places that did not sell booze would do better and millions of drinkers would shun them proir to a ban. But, after a ban, significant
numbers would choose to stay at home and that would put people out of work. So instead of saying, just leave the booze at home, is that too much?, avoid the stink of booze
and the soggy horrid beer mats and the puke. Would it not be better to say people who want booze free pubs/restaurants can go to them and people who want boozey pubs/restaurants
can choose to go to those. Whether one or the other is more popular, is not as important as having choice and jobs - in a free country.
Is this not similar enough to the fuggy/fugfree discussion?
chas, suffolk says...
8:15am Tue 3 Feb 09
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
9:30am Tue 3 Feb 09
Chas. is becoming forgetful in his twilight years, as I've already said on various threads that I often frequented pubs well before the introduction of long overdue and welcome restrictions on smoking in enclosed public places, pubs being included in that definition.
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
9:35am Tue 3 Feb 09
No more Hoegaarden for Charlie boy,to avoid any danger from falls on his continental jaunts. He can't be too careful at his age, after all.
ChrisB, says...
9:46am Tue 3 Feb 09
ASH and the other funded anti-smoking groups have already caused massive damage to businesses, people and communities but this is not enough for them. Their salaries are safe, their smoking cessation empire is growing and their paid hatred is more important than truth or the well-being of the country.
Remember, social health is possibly far more important than any other aspect of life.
Politicians should be listening to their people rather than headline grabbing 'experts' on a mission.
chas, suffolk says...
10:14am Tue 3 Feb 09
chas, suffolk says...
10:21am Tue 3 Feb 09
Anti-smoking groups are paid billions for promoting anti-smoking.
Pharmaceutical companies pay them to advertise NRTS.
We could market alcohol replacement products and sell the rights to Pharmaceutical companies and receive funding for advertising them.
To promote healthy lifestyles we could get the Government and the EU Parliament to pay us loads of money in exchange for spouting out anti-drinking propaganda.
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
10:57am Tue 3 Feb 09
Yes, and he lived to tell the tale, and, as the sun's come out, he may well visit some more to-day, and enjoy the previously new found, but now well established fug free atmosphere.
Obviously, the sun really does shine on the righteous.
Hallelujah, praise the Lord!
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
11:05am Tue 3 Feb 09
I await with interest to hear of the progress of chas.' stunning new joint venture with his new found friend Frank, now that he's given up all hope of having U.K. smoking restrictions rescinded.
Or maybe he's just wavered from the path of righteousness, and had one Hoegaarden too many.
chas, suffolk says...
12:05pm Tue 3 Feb 09
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
1:03pm Tue 3 Feb 09
Perhaps chas. would like to make a forecast as to in which decade his dream will be fulfilled?
Might be more productive for him just to dream about smoking nurses, in or out of uniform.
PASavage, Formerly of Braintree, UK says...
4:40pm Wed 4 Feb 09
Simple.
You're not affected by my habit and I am not affected by your self-righteousness.
PASavage, Formerly of Braintree, UK says...
6:53pm Wed 4 Feb 09
chas wrote:Sorry: seems I wasn't the first with that perspective (I am REALLY glad to say). Respectful apologies there to Fredrik Eich, of Brighton.
David. Did you ever go to a pub before the smoking ban?
If I may be so bold I feel confident in assuming Mr. Eich too has seen a lot more of the world, its political states and repressions and has a larger view of the world and this issue inparticular.
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
7:27pm Wed 4 Feb 09
Simple. All U.K. pubs are now fug free, and smokers are not affected by my lack of a nicotine addiction, self righteous or perhaps just sensible, tho' they are perhaps enslaved to theirs.
Unclear as to the target or context of PASa's second posting, so find it difficult to formulate any response.
beezar, brooklyn,ny says...
10:12pm Wed 4 Feb 09
My sister made it up to me by letting me smoke in her kitchen. WE don't really have many bike sheds in Brooklyn; people of all ages smoke everywhere outside and bedwetters like yourself are still whining about the "clouds" of smoke they have to walk through.
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
10:44pm Wed 4 Feb 09
Good to see that beezar has buried the hatchet with Sis., and no longer wishes "bad cess" on her.
Probably not too many bikes, either, in Brooklyn.
Smoking outside is the least worst option for the habit.
I gave up wetting beds decades ago, but have always disliked having to walk through clouds of smoke exuded by selfish diehard smokers.
chas, suffolk says...
11:00pm Wed 4 Feb 09
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
11:03pm Wed 4 Feb 09
Fredrik seems to be advocating prohibition in his long, rambling post. Trouble is that people know the secret of producing alcohol, and would simply set up, breweries, poteens or stills should the supply be withdrawn.
Leaving the booze at home is quite the norm, as most pubs would take a dim view of customers bringing their own supplies.
"Avoid the stink of booze and the soggy horrid beer mats and the puke."
Fredrik must be familiar with some pretty awful pubs in Brighton, as I don't recognise the description applying to hostelries here in Pleasantville.
Whilst there have been temperance houses and hotels in the past, these tended to disappear with the advent of clean, modern, restrained and pukeless establishments.
Perhaps Fredrik could supply more details of the Action on Alcohol and Health successfull campaign for a zero risk approach for alchohol in the work place. Perhaps the Band of Hope will be revived, along with temperance houses?
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
11:16pm Wed 4 Feb 09
Beezar has now come across chas.w., and will see he is addicted to nicotine, with few sensible comments being made.
He also has a masochistic streak in that he seems to enjoy making ill judged postings, so that David can shoot him down.
He also has a strong penchant for Hoegaarden.
PASavage, Formerly of Braintree, UK says...
6:48pm Thu 5 Feb 09
And I would no longer be affected as I am by his lack of nicotine addiction, manifest obviously, by his verbal runniness akin to the nasty form of poo with which he has familiarised us.
Can you just imagine?
Of course, this is just an opening for him to shoot me down. Let's watch shall we?
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
9:11pm Thu 5 Feb 09
Pooh, pooh!
Keep watching!
DfNM.
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
10:37am Fri 6 Feb 09
As PAS FoB has fallen silent, did my reply doo the job?
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
8:39pm Fri 6 Feb 09
6:53pm Fri 6 Feb 09.
It would sadly appear that PAS FoB hasn't even the most basic level of wit to enable him to rise from the doo doo mire, and make some attempt at a reply that would amply illustrate his possibly superior debating ability.
Ah well, so be it.
beezar, brooklyn,ny says...
4:16am Sat 7 Feb 09
Personally, I think if David is addicted to drink, he's a stay-at-home drunkard, most likely tippling in secret so as not to shatter his image of complete anal rigidity. He's certainly not a pub-goer, at least not of any pub that will admit it. Denizens of the pub culture, including the nonsmokers, are usually tolerant of the vices of others.
David: It's Chas and company who reassure me that Britain has not become a complete puritanical loony bin.
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
11:06am Sat 7 Feb 09
Thought beezar's postings looked familiar, though not sure why he prolonged them so much in the Scotsman last year under a different soubriquet, if he felt the pleasure was so very dubious, nor why he'd want to come back for more dubious pleasure.
I do recall his prolonging a discussion on that thread, despite my trying to terminate the discussion with ever briefer responses. Happily, it ceased eventually.
Beezar should not be too quick to jump to conclusions about either myself nor other citizens of this country, and may be interested to learn that chas. was quoted on the 4th February as saying "I am 'addicted' to alcohol."
I can quote the source if chas. chooses to deny his addiction.
May beezar continue to indulge in his dubious pleasures, be they fags or of other varieties.
Regards to Sis.
chas, suffolk says...
11:26am Sat 7 Feb 09
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
12:37pm Sat 7 Feb 09
Chas. is as confused as ever, probably as a result of too much of the demon drink.
I seem to recall that Pleasantville was the original home of Reader's Digest. So what? That scarcely makes me an avid reader of the publication.
Talking of F2S, where's chas.' erstwhile colleague Mandy v. these days, she of the collection tin and Abe Lincoln homilies?
I have no problem with the deathstyles of others, and only seek restrictions on others' actions that adversely affect me.
While chas. is selfessly ignoring me, I am pleased to note he has acknowledged his alcohol addiction -thus taking the first big step in controlling its effects.
PASavage, Formerly of Braintree, UK says...
2:58pm Sat 7 Feb 09
beezar, brooklyn,ny says...
3:26pm Sat 7 Feb 09
Like any other country with a large and diverse population, I'm sure there are is a great deal of difference of opinion. But judging from these threads (and the rather inescapable fact of massive pub closings) at very least a large minority of Britons is unsatisfied with the bans.
Chas can be addicted to whatever he wants. The word is thrown around so cavalierly today that everyone's "addicted" to something.
If my sister read your postings, her comment would probably be "What a fag." (And I don't mean cigarette).
Everyone: What I must say in David's favor is at least he's not a hypocrite claiming to be concerned for the health of bar employees. His view is straightforward, if narrow-minded: he doens't like smoking and he wants the State to make sure nobody enjoys it.
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
3:58pm Sat 7 Feb 09
2:58pm Sat 7 Feb 09.
's WASP actually, tho' I try not be racially prejudiced.
chas, suffolk says...
7:42pm Sat 7 Feb 09
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
8:14pm Sat 7 Feb 09
Being a WASP is nothing more than an accident of birth, so chas. is deluded again.
chas, suffolk says...
8:27pm Sat 7 Feb 09
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
8:30pm Sat 7 Feb 09
I'm equally sure that beezar used a different soubriquet in the thread alluded to (non de guerre sounds like a pacifist movement). As a clue, I felt it had a Japanese ring to it.
Rather than "throw in the towel", I was simply according our colonial cousin the courtesy of replying at some length to his postings, in appreciation of the beginnings of smoking restrictive legislation on his side of the pond.
If beezar went beyond these threads, he would realise that only a very small vocal minority in the U.K. is dissatisfied with smoking restrictions, and that "massive" pub closures are greatly exaggerated by the pro-smokers lobby.
If Sis. were British, she'd probably say "What a drag", but the meaning is similar.
Beezar is right in that I don't pretend to be concerned about the health of bar workers, but wrong in that I have little interest in the foibles and addictions of others, so long as they don't adversely affect me.
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
8:33pm Sat 7 Feb 09
Most of us are, at least regarding the timing and location.
beezar, brooklyn,ny says...
5:00am Mon 9 Feb 09
I'm surprised that someone as pretentious as you doesn't knwo the phrase "nom de guerre". Or that the British equivalent of "fag" is "pouf". Anyway, I see you're back at the Scotsman. Ciamar a tha thu, a mhac? Right,you don't get that either. Are you what they call a "Little Englander"?
"A small but vocal minority"--sounds like the antismoking moonbats to a T. Glad to hear that smokers in the UK at least have a lobby ot speak for them.
If you don't like smoke, we can work something out--maybe seal you in a plastic bubble and suspend you from the ceiling. Then you can "look down on us" both literally and figuratively.
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
10:37am Mon 9 Feb 09
David tends to be correct much more often than the pro-smoker lobby would wish to give him credit for. So what was the name, and I'll confirm my recollection?
Citizens of slavic countries tend also to have a history of fighting each other, but I suppose the Brits and the Johnny rebsels were no better at one time.
Although I knew "nom de plume", "nom de guerre" was a new term to me, tho' not sure why beezar tried to choose the more bellicose alternative. However if he looks back to his of the 7th, he will see that he chose instead the more pacifist "non" de guerre. A Freudian slip, I'm sure.
In the U.K., a fag is a cigarette, drudgery, or a subservient underling at public schools. Your fag or ****, we tend to spell as poof or poofter. Pouf(fe) is a bouffant type of hairstyle, or something you sit on. Oh, I see now!
Tend to concentrate on the Queen's English and ignore minority languages in the U.K., like Romany, Cornish and Erse, but think of myself as European.
As I keep correcting people, I'll say again that I'm not an anti-smoker, just a pro-restrictionist, a not at all subtle difference.
If beezar is keen on minority interests, he should try Freedom2choose.info, where he'll find his mate chas., and they're always keen to find more members and funds, even from abroad.
A semi space suit over smokers' head and shoulders sounds an ideal solution to me, but their absence in my close proximity will suffice.
chas, suffolk says...
2:59pm Mon 9 Feb 09
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
7:44pm Mon 9 Feb 09
Chas., as always, never seems to know his elbow from his ear.
There are many restrictions in modern life, such as R.T.A. speed restrictions, traffic lights and litter laws, all of which affect my lifestyle, but which I observe for "the common good".
Being pro-smoking as opposed to a pro-smoker, is not the same, as was pointed out to me some time ago by one of chas' F2S colleagues, the former being a type of crusade, the latter simply being a form of sympathy movement.
Chas. and most of his F2S cohorts seem incapable of recognising that smoking in the U.K. is not prohibited, forbidden, banned or barred, simply ( thankfully )restricted as to where it may legally take place.
Within those parameters, David is not particularly concerned about how smokers choose to live their lives.
Has chas. got it yet? Hopefully, finally at last, perhaps?
If not, how may I express it more succinctly?
chas, suffolk says...
8:09pm Mon 9 Feb 09
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
9:00pm Mon 9 Feb 09
If the mysterious "they" were to do so, then I'd have to observe the law, and drink decent bottles of beer ( not "tinnies" ) or wine at home, or even brew / cultivate my own. Is that answer clear enough for chas.' limited powers of understanding, or does he need a monosyllabic response?
PASavage, Formerly of Braintree, UK says...
3:08pm Tue 10 Feb 09
You are the WORST of British, 'David'. And, as such, a goddmaned embarrassment to those of us that aim for the higher principals for which the Brits used to be known worldwide.
Try 'nobility' of thought and refrain from the ignoble baseness into which you continue to slither. You'll feel better, enjoy more productive conversations and maybe even become a valued member of society. Right now I more than doubt any are true. Certainly not in this thread.
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
7:13pm Tue 10 Feb 09
3:08pm Tue 10 Feb 09.
Perhaps I should aspire to the highly articulate, learned, scholarly, and literate style of discourse of PAS, an example being "verbal runniness akin to the nasty form of poo with which he has familiarised us."
More likely, I shall remain several degrees above his base intellect and adhere to my "incessant claptrap".
For "goddmaned" did he mean "godammned", and did he perhaps mean "principles"?
Like chas.w., he should try harder.
A lot harder!
Bonne nuit!
chas, suffolk says...
8:45pm Tue 10 Feb 09
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
9:07pm Tue 10 Feb 09
The big nasty ram is welcome to think as it pleases, assuming it's capable of logical thought.
PASavage, Formerly of Braintree, UK says...
5:34pm Wed 11 Feb 09
You do know don't you, that we accomplish nothing and simple feed our own egos by continually recognising people that find their only retort is to bring attention to one's spelling mistakes or simple typo's rather than the issue at hand? :-P
I think too that there is a moral imperative by which you and are I bound whereby we ought not encourage those of wants, needs and desires obtuse to or simply incongruent with the conversation to pursue them to their own detriment.
*L*
Know what I mean, mate?
Cheers – and Dave?
Take it easy man. You’re no fun when you take yourself so seriously: your opinion is rightfully yours and sometimes even righteous. But, you mustn’t go through life thinking it is or ought to be the only one. In addition to the tongue making one deaf, a closed mind is a saddened one. Look: the sun’s shining, the world’s beneath your feet and every day we learn something more. When presented with different perspectives, our own changes and we’re better for it!
But that does require the need to recognize that previously we were wrong or misguided or simply insular in our comfortable certitude.
And for the love of god – stop contradicting yourself when trying to use “big” words with which you are obviously a little out of practice (I could’ve said “polysyllabic” but I don’t want to fuel the fire any more, mate)!
Have a nice day.
PASavage, Formerly of Braintree, UK says...
5:37pm Wed 11 Feb 09
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
6:37pm Wed 11 Feb 09
5:34 and 5.37p.m.Wed 11 Feb 09.
Thanks to PAS, I've finally seen the light and realised that I really must loosen up, smell the coffee, and learn to ignore the twitterings of chas.w. and the other F2S and assorted pro nicotine diehards.
Instead, I must look forward to spring, warmer teperatures, and enjoyment of all those fug free pubs and other enclosed public places, thanks to the wonderful Health Act of 2006.
It was honest of PAS to point out the "simple/y" error, but not sure that his obscure "we ought not encourage those of wants, needs and desires obtuse to or simply incongruent with the conversation to pursue them to their own detriment." is made more intelligible by the deletion of "of". Did he mean to substitute "of" with "with"?
I'll certainly have a nice day to-morrow in all those fug free pubs and other enclosed public places.
Cheers!
chas, suffolk says...
7:30pm Wed 11 Feb 09
PASavage, Formerly of Braintree, UK says...
7:52pm Wed 11 Feb 09
Cheers!
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
8:17pm Wed 11 Feb 09
Billy Goat Gruff presumably meant to say "if you're as lonely as he( is )". Are chas.' mistakes and errors really all deliberate, as most of them are grammatical rather than typographic. Gosh! Who'd a thowt it!
This not so poor little lamb will have no problem in finding his way to fug free pubs to-morrow. Not too difficult, really, as, thankfully, they're all like that in the U.K. these days.
Cheers!
PASavage, Formerly of Braintree, UK says...
8:25pm Wed 11 Feb 09
And to wax ever more eloquent, as David is wont to spur me - the sobriquet '****' springs suddenly to mind *LOL*)
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
8:26pm Wed 11 Feb 09
7:52pm Wed 11 Feb 09.
PAS would appear to have chosen not to respond to the points raised in my previous riposte to him, regarding his postings of earlier to-day. Unless, of course, his acronym has some meaningful significance, if a bit lewd perhaps?
Roll on fug free pubs to-morrow, a.k.a. ROFFPT!
Cheers in advance.
PASavage, Formerly of Braintree, UK says...
8:30pm Wed 11 Feb 09
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
8:41pm Wed 11 Feb 09
8:25pm Wed 11 Feb 09.
PAS seems to confuse "patenting" with the concept of "patently embarrassing". If any embarrassment has been caused to him or the likes of inept chas.w. and others of the pro-smokers' minority, I'll try very hard to sleep peacefully to-night, despite that knowledge.
Either PAS apparently has spelling difficulties with even four letter words, or has resorted to vulgarities he feels unable to print.
Chin chin!
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
8:45pm Wed 11 Feb 09
8:30pm Wed 11 Feb 09.
I thought the latter had six characters, as "cheers" also has.
Cheers!
chas, suffolk says...
9:07pm Wed 11 Feb 09
Not where I live.
Baa. Baa. Baa.
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
9:14pm Wed 11 Feb 09
Chas. lives in his own Walter Mitty land, as ever. Perhaps, in one fine decade, his dreams and hopes will all come true.
Cheers!
chas, suffolk says...
10:05pm Wed 11 Feb 09
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
10:19pm Wed 11 Feb 09
Why bother traipsimg over to Belgium so often, then?
Cheers in anticipation of to-morrow!
P.S.-Chas. should be sure not to tell the council about his dream world. They might just spoil his imaginary fun, as was the fate of Howitt, Blows, Hogan, Smith et al.
chas, suffolk says...
10:46pm Wed 11 Feb 09
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
10:59pm Wed 11 Feb 09
Is that the best or only reason for chas.' jolly jaunts? If so, what a narrow perspective!
This supposed "little lamb" is quite capable of looking after himself, thank you.
Chas. should never underestimate the presence and effectiveness of those whom he chooses to refer to as "stormtroopers", and should be very careful to look over his shoulder during his alleged "lock-ins"..
Santé!
PASavage, Formerly of Braintree, UK says...
10:27am Thu 12 Feb 09
I was stressed at the time - the bar-b-que grill was ready for the marinated chickens I had ready for family dinner and I needed to get going. Later, when I relaxed with a tall glass of ice water and cigar on my patio, I felt bored by the prospect of 'David' redux and so couldn't be bothered to apologise then. I'm sure you understand.
Then too, I felt more sadness at that point anyway, picturing you hunched over the keyboard in the flickering light of the CRT as you frantically fed your onanistic self-indulgence, one-handedly spewing forth your platitudinous clap-trap.
So, sorry, David. I am glad to think the chances of me running into you in a pub in Braintree are slim to none. You wouldn't be able to stand it.
*Gone*
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
11:27am Thu 12 Feb 09
10:27am Thu 12 Feb 09.
It's a non-flickering plasma screen, and"Good".
Sean Spillane, Luton says...
10:06pm Tue 17 Feb 09
whom-tour
David from New Mills, Pleasantville, U.K. says...
10:18pm Tue 17 Feb 09
Can pro-smoker Sean provide a realistic estimate of how many people are "genuinely campaigning against the smoking ban"?
After all, F2S only has some 900 members out of a potential catchment of, say, 13 million U.K. smokers.
Perhaps M.P.'s can stop perspiring, at least on this account.
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jredheadgirl, says...
11:30pm Wed 28 Jan 09
Please shut your cake hole already.
Dear leaders:
Please start representing ALL of the people, not just some of the people.
Amend the smoking ban and see people return to the pubs again while putting service workers back to work-